Daniel

@ Lilkitten

"That phrasing interestingly leaves out more loot 'per player'." because
a) its very heavily implied and it goes without saying
b) it was already said in the original post

Nethaera said:
"We of course recognize the logistical realities of organizing larger groups of people, so while the loot quality will not change, 25-player versions will drop a higher quantity of loot PER PLAYER (items, but also badges, and even gold), making it a more efficient route if you're able to gather the people."

seriously check your damn sources before you form an opinion on them

"His own numbers suggest while it will drop more loot in 25, the loot per player will be the same."

no they don't, the only numbers he presents (1:6) outright states the complete opposite, what he was saying which you hopelessly misconstrued is that alpha is alpha, there are no solid numbers

"5:2 which seems to be the loot ratio drop Zarhym is talking about" LOLWUT!? seriously quote what he said that lead you to that conclusion, if you can't (you cant) kindly stop pulling numbers from your a$s

"Even if it dropped more loot per player, gearing would still be faster in 10's." wait why? if you have the 25 people for the 25 man, it will be a much more efficient way to gear up

more loot per player, more chances to get what you need, how are you missing that?

"Most raids will not take more than 1 per class."
I dont know who you are raiding with, but since there are only 10 classes, you are much more likely to be in a raid with more than 1 of a class than 1 of each class

the point is, its not even common place, much less "most raids"

"In 25's, many players will have to compete. So even if you had 2 drops per boss in 10's and say 8 in 25's, a mage would have no competition for his loot drop in a 10 but would have to roll against 2 or 3 others in a 25." more loot per player is still more loot per player, while he may have to compete with a few others (much more likely just 1 other than 2 or 3 lol) the item still is 4 times more likely to drop

he is still better off in the 25 man


"Read, "MANAGING" a group the size of a 25. Even if you could make the encounters relatively the same in diffuculty between the 2 raids, more work goes in from a management aspect for a 25 and that's what GC discusses. His post was on April 7, 2009 so this thinking that equal rewards won't kill 25's, well, even Blizz doesn't agree with that."

ok? blizz doesnt want the rewards from 25 mans which require that philosophy hasnt changed at all
a quantity reward is still just as much a reward as quality

25 mans will still be rewarded accordingly that isn't changing, if you paid close attention to the posts you keep sighting you'd notice that

"As for Muqq, sorry, but he quit the game AFTER the announced changes in raiding, there have been articles on wow.com, mmo champs and the like. Sorry I don't bookmark every page I go to and I dount you do as well" youre able to did up year old blues though?

sorry you can't support your erroneous claims, it happens

"As for your copy and paste of the 4 instances remark, this has nothing to do with the gear changes. The 4 versions of the same instance is pretty much hated by everyone"
actually it has everything to do with it, if anything he doesnt like the split raid system, and could care less if the rewards were slightly better than an easier version of it, its irrelevant anyway, as you were wrong about why muqq left

"As for showing you forum posts, sorry, guilds don't go and make "Offically stopped raiding" threads." yes they do, all the time
if the guild doesnt themselves, a third party always posts a thread about why guild x isnt around anymore

extremely commonplace realm drama is extremely commonplace

"As for your comment about playing the game for free, um, are you just ignorant? Blizz not only does not allow free play, they do NOT give away the game for free. You can get a free trial, but that has a level and time limit on it." good thing we werent talking about monthly fees, if you have an account, you can download the whole game and every expansion online for free

"My original statement stands, for WoW to grow, they HAVE to sell the original game and all 3 xpacs to new people. " have you ever played games with expansions before? its pretty common place that once there are to many, they start to bundle them together (kinda like they have online already)

"Even if someone did that, the moment they hit Outlands and saw it deserted, a new player isn't going to stick around." you mean like right now?

new players are leveling through the deserted outlands as we speak, why would that change in cata, furthermore how many tangents do you need to go off on before you grasp how wrong you are?

"And Blizz isn't reworking outlands." who are you to say they wont?
we have at least 4 more expansions ahead of us, blizz has plenty of time to do whatever the f*ck they want with outland

@ Lilkitten

"Sorry, but ytou must have not read Zarhyms followup post on the loot numbers. He said specifically not to think 10 mans will drop as little as 1 per boss or as many as 6 for 25 mans." citation needed, i dont remeber a blue when he talked about such solid numbers, only when he discussed the concept

there have been no definite answers on how the system will work other than 25 man will drop more loot PER PLAYER than 10 mans, hence the perk for going through the extra trouble to get the 25 man together, that isnt game breaking

"Now, if 10's will drop more than 1 and 25's less than 6, you can see about a 5:2 ratio in drops, which is the identical ratio of 25:10 raiding. It's so funny how people in 10's always say this won't kill 25's but trust me it will." again pulling numbers OUT YOUR ASS, but if the ratio was identical to 25:10 raiding there would be no extra loot in 25 man (per person) and therefore no incentive to do 25 mans, killing them

"Also, as for people leaving, Muqq the MT of Ensidia has announced several weeks ago when this news was made he was leaving the game"
I dont get it, did you think you were the only one in the world who was aware of the going ons within ensidia, or did you just assume no one would research your support?
http://www.ensidia.com/muqq/blog/4436/

Mugg explaining why he is ACTUALLY leaving. he says nothing about the change to 25 mans

he even said quite the opposite:
'Having 4 versions of the same instance, same bosses and same scenery also gets quite repetitive.'
'So, what do I want?... worthwhile content... it can be anything from 5 man up to 25 man

(in all honesty his farewell post is textbook rage over not getting the world first h25 man kill)

sorry you couldn't be more wrong, nice try though

"and several other members of that guild hve left to" [citation needed] sure you arent just trying to pad the, very little (see: none), support you have?

"As for whole guilds leaving, yeah, that is happening a LOT." again no

show me ONE forum topic about it and i will show you a bad guild looking for attention

"if you look at how Blizz counts subscriptions, many of those aren't even active subscriptions" also not true, one of the biggest increases in subscriptions blizz is banking on with the release of cataclysm is customers returning after being bored with the same old game (see: wrath)

seriously, do you assume these things are correct without checking them because just because they support your point of view or what? because i dont see where you would find such a hodgepodge of misinformation

"For WoW to grow, new people will have to buy Vanilla, then buy BC and Wrath and finally Cataclysm. Not going to happen"

no, its not going to happen, because you can already get the whole game, start to f*cking finish, for free, from THEIR DAMN SITE

"And with so many hardcore leaving, you will have fewer mods made, fewer boss strat sites and so forth" seriously; two things and im done with your wall:
1) wtb corroborating evidence for any of your numbers/logic
2) bookmark this page, in a year when everything you said has come true I want you to come back here and RUB MY NOSE IN IT