amber_curtis

It amazes me at how anyone could defend this type of behavior as "just typical" or get upset that the actions of this person can tarnish the entire community. What did you think would happen?

As someone who has considered playing EVE, every time I come close to leaning in the direction of picking it up, I read something like this and step back from the game. Waaaaay back. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'll tell you exactly why, as an outsider, it tarnishes the reputation of the entire playerbase for me (and probably a good many other people as well).

I don't care whether or not you, your guild members, your friends, or anyone else that you may or may not have spoken with was not personally responsible for this behavior. I don't care how good you claim the community to be. The fact is, this guy was voted into a positon by the player base (that supposedly is so awesome and helpful) to represent them.

He was chosen to go in front of a company to represent YOU (the playerbase of EVE), and the best that I've seen in response from the playerbase of EVE is weak. Nothing more than sad attempts to brush off the actions of this sociopath (and his behavior of taking his griefing outside of a game to deliberately and pre-meditatively torment a human being into possible suicide - all while knowing that this individual was already possibly mentally unstable - is sociopathic) as the actions of just one person or a small minority.

I don't care if everyone in that game is "like that" or not. The fact is, any decent human being who plays EVE should be screaming for CCP to make heads roll. But they aren't. Not that I've seen anywhere. It is just shoved on CCP to handle it, but I don't see anyone demanding action from them to do so. Just silent whispers and head nods and a few valiantly trying to defend the game and the community, who ultimately were responsible for allowing this behavior to go on for so long.

So yes, I view the EVE community to be as harsh and as callous as they've always been so proud of being, and I view the lack of action by these so-called "good people" as nothing more than the equivalent of standing by in real life and watching someone get beat down and tortured by a group of thugs without ever trying to help or contact authorities. Just tut-tut and turn your heads and say, 'Well, that's just the nature of the game'.

Of course, in EVE, the authorities (CCP) are the people giving the thugs (Goons) a platform in which to perform and promote their sadistic behavior. Quite frankly, EVE is not a game anymore. Not to me anyway. Something that has such potential to affect me (or anyone) in real life, in real dollars, etc., has crossed a big line in calling itself a 'game'. It's more like a sickening social experiment in how far people will go when they aren't held accountable by society.

I pay for games for enjoyment. Yes, I get griefed on occassion, I have bad days, but nothing, not a single thing, in ANY other game I've ever played would allow this type of behavior for 30 seconds, let alone allow it to carry on into my personal life while encouraging or promoting it. And that is the difference between CCP vs. any other MMO on the market. It isn't that I hate EVE the game, I'm not bashing on it. I'm bashing on the community that glorifies this and when it gets out of hand does nothing but wonder why people look at them in the same light as the psychotics that they've allowed to take over.

If CCP does not come down swift, and hard, on this Mittani character, I will never pick up a game that has their fingerprints on it no matter how pretty or shiny or sandboxy they make it. Ever. I'm just one person and I don't expect for my opinion to matter. But I have a feeling that my opinion is shared by many more than just myself.

I don't come to a gaming site to hear about the word of God. If I wanted to do that, I'd go to church. I'm here on a gaming site, reading an article about a game. The comments here are just a bonus.

What ever happened to "turn the other cheek"? This little diatribe is why I cannot seem to take religion seriously. Offended? Next you'll be crying that this game is blasphemy against your Christ and start demanding jihad... wait... that's the mirror religion to yours. Nevermind.

I'm sure you get my point.

It's true that some mods are great for making things cleaner and prettier. But there is a huge difference between a mod that simply cleans up a UI, and a mod that tells you what button to push in what order for every mob, if you have to even push a button at all.

Vanity mods are fun. Instructional mods that take away the necessity of thinking things through for yourself or even paying attention are an entirely different ballgame.

Whoa, whoa, and whoa Tempes Magus,

Let me address a few of your rebuttal points:

You said: 1) The forums are an adequate sample to determine the proportional number that are angry about the change.
At least 90% of the forum posters are against the Real ID stuff, so that likely equates to a majority of the players who don't post feeling the same way since they all play WoW and are all human.

I say: 90% of people who post on the forums, (which is in itself a statistically small percentage of the total number of people who actually play the game), do not equate to a majority of the total players. I don't know what "being human" has to do with posting or not posting in this context, at all. What I'm saying is, there are damned lies, and there are "statistics". I don't pull them out because they're simply bunk.

You say: 2) How the hell do you know how many aren't offended by this?
All the data clearly shows that the majority of opinions we can see are saying "Real ID sucks!".
Where are you getting this data that "the majority don't care"?

I say: Please, show me where I ever claimed that there aren't a large amount of people offended by this move. The fact is, I didn't. What I did say was that those who are offended (aka, you), might be surprised at the number of people who are not offended (aka, me, and others). We were never a vocal subset on the forums, due to those who were. Again, I never claimed that people don't care, I simply stated that it might not be as big of a "majority" of the player base as you think it is. It is however a majority of the trolls and forum goers, without a doubt, that are offended. You are wrong about "all the data", what you should be saying is, "all the data that I see, and or have access to at this time", which again, I'm saying may not be the majority you think it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

You say: 3) Yes, you can avoid posting, but what happens when they bring this into the game because you didn't speak out against the forum changes and thus said "okie dokie, this is great for the forums, please bring it in game too"?
What do you think they are planning next since they said they have big plans for the social networking side of this?
Are you so oblivious that you can't imagine this getting bigger and invading more of the game?

I say: If I don't like it, and if this is somehow forced on me without ever having the option to not disclose this information (ie: by simply not posting), then I will simply quit the game if I don't like it. They can't force me to play it, they can't force you either. There are other games on the market, and I have a life outside of WoW. It's a non-issue. There is a choice given to players here: Post using Real ID, or don't post, and don't disclose your personal information. When the choice is taken away, at that time, I will leave. Using the entire analogy of "first they came for me" is, in my opinion, fear mongering and rather unnecessary.

You say: 4) Emails and phone calls already take forever, but without the forums they will take even longer or just fail completely because of overtaxed systems and people.

I say: This is simply conjecture and speculation as to what "will" happen, or what "may" happen. Emails and calls take forever, and using the forum to try to communicate issues, in my personal experience, never resolved any issue I had as I was told to "email or call technical support" anyway, and the lovely comments by every nerd to fancy themselves an IT expert didn't solve my issues either. In fact, in a little over 5 years of playing WoW, I've never had a single issue resolved by using the forums. Again, this is nothing but speculation and conjecture on your part for now.

You say: 5) Who the hell carss if you don't care if your name is out there?
Are you afraid of a stalker who already knows you play WoW on some character that he doesn't know?
Are you afraid of a stalker who has threatened to show up on your doorstep, but doesn't know your name yet so can't find you?

Are you the kid in this story?:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_683959a0-8a02-591d-a32b-0071ea3d1d92.html

Would you want to ever be the kid that guy went after? He was only 3 years older than the kid so there wasn't much difference istrength or anything likely.


The point is:
You may not be concerned, but to dismiss the concerns of others and play god with their information is just retarded.
You have made it clear that you don't care, but then why do you even bother posting?
You don't care so let those who care which way this goes give their reasons and voice their opinion while you keep your "shut up troll" posts to yourself.
Attacking the validity of another person's reasons based on your own experience only proves you haven't experienced everything yet and are an imbecile.

I say: No, I am not paranoid about stalkers, and a few select cases that have been highly sensationalized and plucked out to wave in front of everyone else like a proverbial boogeyman do not scare me. Your entire premise here in these last few paragraphs seems to be that my opinion doesn't matter because it doesn't align perfectly with yours, so I should just bow out from giving my opinion on the subject.

That isn't how it works. You failed to point out where, or how, I've attacked any "validity" of a person's reasons, because I have not. I have simply stated my own personal experiences and thoughts on the matter. I've done precisely what you have done in a comment section, given my comment. I didn't go around calling anyone an imbecile for disagreeing with me either, a tactic that seems to be more frequently used when a more intelligent offering cannot be made.

In short, your emotional outbursts and scare tactics and seagull ranting has proven nothing, other than that you are very emotional about this topic. I'm sorry it seems to have had such a dramatic effect on you and your life. I'm pointing out that there are people out there like myself who have not suffered from this, and that seems to have pissed you off even more. Tough shit. That's the way the world works.

I am disappointed in all of the downrating because my opinion is not in line with the majority of forum posters, but sadly not surprised.

I think a lot of people may be surprised at the number of people who play WoW who are not offended by this, and who really don't give a crap. You can have my real name. Do what you will with it. I've had my ID stolen before, I know the ramifications first hand, and I'm still not worried about it.

I previously never posted on the WoW forums because they're nothing but a pure cesspool of garbage, where even the decent informational posts tend to get drowned out in the sea of crap. Maybe now i may be interested in taking a look at them. I know of several others who feel the same.

I've always exercised my option to NOT post on the forums, with this change, maybe I'll excersice my option TO actually use them. Either way, despite how many are against this, and despite how many people hate it, the cold hard fact is that nobody is forcing anyone to post on the forums. When it becomes a decision that is taken away from you, then it's a different story.

As for technical support, there are emails and phone calls. For game information, I'm sure there will be plenty of other forums who will be happy to harbor the trolls and miscreants in pure anonymity so that others can sift through the crap to find the small pearl of information. Either way, the drama will die down, WoW will still be thriving, and life will go on.

You make some good points, and I don't take offense to good dialogue. My biggest concern is runaway greed via Corporations. I used ATT as an example due to Apple's new iPad release. I had fully intended to get one when they were touting x amount of $ per month flat rate. When ATT decided that they were no longer going to do that (after securing exclusive rights with Apple of course), I quickly changed my mind as everything I wanted to use the iPad for was no longer worth it due to potential charges.

On the one hand, when Corporations go unregulated and unfettered, it is always at the expense of the consumers, ala 'The Jungle by Upton Sinclair'. Always.

On the other hand, you can't trust politicians to do the right thing either, no matter what the party affiliation. You have one set of dirty asses trying to regulate another set of dirty asses. Who's regulating who is yet to be determined in this one.

I guess the new cap AT&T put on their bandwidth escaped your attention? But don't worry, it won't affect "average" users, just those who like to watch streaming movies from Netflix, who use torrent, or who like to download their games, etc. IE, your average gamer.

You're right in that the future user will eventually catch up to the data usage that a lot of gamers and heavier users go through today, but it will come at a pretty steep price. You can count on that.

I started playing Eve for the first time last month. My first impressions:

1. Take to heart & get it through your head before you step foot into your first ship: "Don't fly what you can't afford to replace". Repeat that to yourself about 100 times, then say it again. It makes loss SO much less painful, and helps you maintain perspective about fun in a game, etc.

2. There is a TON of information to take in, and when you're a total noob, even the basic things that you take for granted in a typcial MMO such as movement and map reading do not apply here. Don't beat yourself up over it, there is a large community that you are introduced to right away just waiting to answer your questions.

3. That said, give them a minute to get to you in chat. It can scroll quickly.

4. When you think you've got something figured out, you will learn that there are 40 other small details to that something that you do not even know exists yet.

5. Your agent missions are your quests, but don't get too attached to them. They are just a means to an end to the real game.

6. Give yourself at least a month to get used to the game, and try EVERYTHING that you can try. This is not a game that holds your hand, guides you along, and tells you what to do next. You will be the one deciding what you do here, and believe it or not, it can be difficult getting used to that. Especially if you're coming from a game like WoW that guides you every step of the way.

7. Scammers, griefers, and gankers. They are everywhere, and you WILL be taken in by at least one of them at some point, even when you think you're aware. Deal with it. Put them on a list somewhere, and keep it in the back of your mind that some day, you WILL be able to get your revenge if you desire, either by doing it yourself, or hiring it done.

8. The market can be tough. You will probably get ripped off here and there, but don't be afraid to play around.

9. Patience is more than a virtue in Eve. It is mandatory. Patience with yourself, with the game, and with others. Once you truly understand the scope of what is possible for YOU to do in this game, it can be overwhelming, but that is when the exhiliration kicks in and the addiction begins.

10. Resources are out there. USE THEM. If you don't like to read, Eve is probably not for you. If you are not someone who has the patience to learn how things work before diving right in, I wouldn't recommend this game.

Eve is more than a quick drop in and blow shit up game, although I guess it could be that over time if you wanted it to be. It is a challenge in so many more ways than that. It is a challenge to learn, a challenge to find your place, and a challenge to push yourself when you're left wondering what to do. However, for me, it has been a rewarding experience.

What concerns me most is that this is just a backdoor way to give Corporations even more control over the information we're allowed to share and receive.

When is the last time any of you took out a television ad to state your point of view? Exactly. Money talks, and with this move it is all about the bottom dollar.

This could potentially give Corporations like Comcast or Cox the ability to determine and control what information you can receive. And should that control lead to more profits for them... they wouldn't be crying about that.

What is worse is that if I were in a rural area where only one ISP is available (IE, like Comcast in several areas), and they decided to limit my access, I would have no competitor to turn to and no government resource to help aid me.

I look at it this way. The internet is a vast library, right across the street from my house. The ISPs have now become crossing guards who may, or may not, let me across the street to easily obtain access to that library, depending on how much I might want to pay them.

I guess you could consider me a retired tourist.

After three or four years of WoW, several level-capped classes, and end-game content complete, I was aching for something new. New community, new content, new anything.

When Warhammer came out I was all over it like white on rice. I didn't just play Warhammer for a few weeks (although that was honestly all it deserved). I played it for a year, making excuse after excuse for what was honestly an over-hyped and seriously undeveloped MMO. Next generation my arse. I could go on and on about how horribly that game was mangled, but after a year I moved on to Aion.

Aion was and is an extremely, stunningly, beautiful game. I loved a whole lot about it. I didn't mind the anime styles, the sounds, etc. The only problem I had with it was the time it took to dedicate to leveling. I work 60+ hours per week and have a life outside of gaming. This did not mesh well with the grind that is Aion. It also did not mesh well with finding a regular core group of players or a guild to play with, and much of the content in Aion required that group.

After putting down Aion, I gave it a few more months and picked up WoW again. I can say now that despite the boredom of before, I am loving and appreciating WoW in ways I was incapable of before. Everything is complete, from beginning to end game. Sure, there are problems here and there, but let me tell you they are nothing, NOTHING, compared to the problems suffered by new releases today.

I will never run out of content, things to do, areas to explore, dungeons to run, items to craft, quests to complete, scenarios, PvP, festivities to particpate in. There is literally 6 real years of content there. Refined content.

Do the graphics look a bit outdated? Sure! Are there still class issues? Sure! But they work. The game runs on any of my computers, no rubber banding, no stutter, no stupid lumbering due to lag. This is now what I appreciate most about WoW. That it is as casual as I need it to be, but still allows me to sit down for a few hours here and there and have fun, to feel like I got somewhere or accomplished something. It is also as advanced as I want it to be.

After much searching and assessment, it is going to take one hell of a game.. a complete game.. to make me leave WoW again.