I guess this all comes down to the way Blizz 'trains' the players on their way up to 80, some players just can't help the fact their dps is terribad and that they do not know even where to look for resources. Wow.com has made slight headway towards this with a class guide, but I bet most of the 12million subscribers aren't even aware of this site, Buffd.net seems like it's making some headway but I think it won't be any more successful.
This post just proves that some players just don't have the knowledge, when fighting Ingvar, or any boss for that matter, melee dps should be behind the boss anyway it's a basic requirement if you want to max your dps, but if you're a new player, and you've just started dungeons at 70 (because lets face it, blizz hasn't put anything in the game to motivate players to run lower lv dungeons meaning people do not learn before 70) then you aren't going to know you're attacks are less likely to land a blow due to the boss parrying from the front. Are the players ever informed of this fact inside game? Nope, maybe on the tip on loading screen, but it's all chance which tip you get and said players may not even bother to look.
What I think the game may need is some boss training quests going through the levels. At every tenth lv you get a mail from you're classes instructor to meet you in the capital city for training and the chance to earn an exclusive reward (an item that will greatly improve levelling, maybe a weapon that gives a stacking 10% XP bonus, but breaks, and must be repaired by your instructor after doing a quest at the next 10th level). This trainer would phase you into an arena type place that places you in a 5man group of npcs, and you get to chose your role in the group. This then determines the script for the instructor. Then, with your 5man group consisting of yourself and 5NPC's, you fight a boss which speaks with voice acting, starting off with the basics of your class and role at level 10, and building in different boss mechanics up to lv 80, where at level 80 you get to fight a complex boss giving you a starter package of emblems of X, some consumables, some gold and a final lecture from your instructor on how to gem and enchant you're gear for raiding. I think, apart from being a cool reward to look forward to every 10 lvs this could go some way to helping said players, I would also like to see some loading screen advertisements for reference sites like Tankspot, wow.com, buffd.net, wcradio.com and some blogs-make the loading screen something really interesting!
Looking at your post Allison, I agree with what you have said, a good tank definitely has it easier as I know from my 80 warrior tank-he sails through 5mans and because I know what I'm doing, the dps don't get hurt, There's plenty of time for healers to react to a good tanks health going down, and good tanks have a sixth sense when it comes to "oh [expletive]" buttons buying even more time for a slow to react healer....But my first experience as a Holy Paladin was frightful. I collected my holy gear as a prot pally, my first healing heroic was the Nexus @ 1400 SP, 25% crit. You really are at the mercy of all the other players in there, with the worst bosses being little-miss-threesome (if the dps can't kill the right ones quick you find yourself cc'd as a healer and you could find some people start dying), the dwarf boss (whirl butchering the unaware mage) and keristrasza box of debuff tricks and mini-enrage (the dps can take a lot of unnecessary damage due to no knowledge of the fight, low dps leading to a longer mini-enrage causing the healer to go into a coma if they have a mediocre healing set).
I guess this all comes down to the way Blizz 'trains' the players on their way up to 80, some players just can't help the fact their dps is terribad and that they do not know even where to look for resources. Wow.com has made slight headway towards this with a class guide, but I bet most of the 12million subscribers aren't even aware of this site, Buffd.net seems like it's making some headway but I think it won't be any more successful.
This post just proves that some players just don't have the knowledge, when fighting Ingvar, or any boss for that matter, melee dps should be behind the boss anyway it's a basic requirement if you want to max your dps, but if you're a new player, and you've just started dungeons at 70 (because lets face it, blizz hasn't put anything in the game to motivate players to run lower lv dungeons meaning people do not learn before 70) then you aren't going to know you're attacks are less likely to land a blow due to the boss parrying from the front. Are the players ever informed of this fact inside game? Nope, maybe on the tip on loading screen, but it's all chance which tip you get and said players may not even bother to look.
What I think the game may need is some boss training quests going through the levels. At every tenth lv you get a mail from you're classes instructor to meet you in the capital city for training and the chance to earn an exclusive reward (an item that will greatly improve levelling, maybe a weapon that gives a stacking 10% XP bonus, but breaks, and must be repaired by your instructor after doing a quest at the next 10th level). This trainer would phase you into an arena type place that places you in a 5man group of npcs, and you get to chose your role in the group. This then determines the script for the instructor. Then, with your 5man group consisting of yourself and 5NPC's, you fight a boss which speaks with voice acting, starting off with the basics of your class and role at level 10, and building in different boss mechanics up to lv 80, where at level 80 you get to fight a complex boss giving you a starter package of emblems of X, some consumables, some gold and a final lecture from your instructor on how to gem and enchant you're gear for raiding. I think, apart from being a cool reward to look forward to every 10 lvs this could go some way to helping said players, I would also like to see some loading screen advertisements for reference sites like Tankspot, wow.com, buffd.net, wcradio.com and some blogs-make the loading screen something really interesting!
Looking at your post Allison, I agree with what you have said, a good tank definitely has it easier as I know from my 80 warrior tank-he sails through 5mans and because I know what I'm doing, the dps don't get hurt, There's plenty of time for healers to react to a good tanks health going down, and good tanks have a sixth sense when it comes to "oh [expletive]" buttons buying even more time for a slow to react healer....But my first experience as a Holy Paladin was frightful. I collected my holy gear as a prot pally, my first healing heroic was the Nexus @ 1400 SP, 25% crit. You really are at the mercy of all the other players in there, with the worst bosses being little-miss-threesome (if the dps can't kill the right ones quick you find yourself cc'd as a healer and you could find some people start dying), the dwarf boss (whirl butchering the unaware mage) and keristrasza box of debuff tricks and mini-enrage (the dps can take a lot of unnecessary damage due to no knowledge of the fight, low dps leading to a longer mini-enrage causing the healer to go into a coma if they have a mediocre healing set).
"Most worgen keep their wolf-like forms at all times, but experiments by the mage Arugal has resulted in human/worgen hybrids who only appear as worgen under the light of the moon. They carry with them a dark corrupting malaise that grows wherever they infest, making the surrounding area dark and gloomy."-Taken from WoW wiki.
Imagine how awesome it would be if you rolled a Worgen and had the option to transform into a Worgen at a certain server time with changing racials and extra abilities :))
Yay, I just wasted all the raiding I've done up till now. Fantastic left hook there blizz.
Say hello to the Raid Killer patch. Not only will people run less raids due to risk-reward, but once this gets around, all current raids up until patch are completely worthless gear-wise.
"I find the reliance on procs irritating, always waiting for Sudden Death or Taste for Blood, never knowing when they're going to proc, having a timer on my rend up time so that I never let it fall off but don't waste rage"
Taste for blood procs every 6 seconds without glyph of rend..SO you do know when TfB procs.
You should let rend fall off as the last TfB proc is up when it falls off, keeping it up before it leaves will lose you a gcd & and OP.
I think this is a real good step for blizzard. First making the entry set craftable and then making the Savage Gladiator set purchasable at a cheaper rate. Encourages more people to play arena which is actually fun in comparison to BG's.
I personally love this topic, truly thought provoking, so thanks to Bartle for bringing this up.
Having done the quest just the other day, it did make me question the darker tone blizzard seem to be bringing in to the game. I actually left my character stood there for a few mins and thought about it before shocking the guy. Until I got called for tea and tortured him for everything he was worth :P But I think Bartle misses something, I have read his blog but the quest log had some very important information that rings the bell, and told me, wait a minute, I'm doing this for a quest, I HAVE to do it to progress, but blizz does recognize it is wrong and I think they wanted us to try it out and then reflect as we are doing now.
"You see, the Kirin Tor code of conduct frowns upon our taking certain 'extreme' measures - even in desperate times such as these."
-They recognize it is extreme, even in a state of war. This is a red flag and he clearly doesn't want to perform the act, in my opinion, hiding behind the code of conduct.
"You, however, as an outsider, are not bound by such restrictions and could take any steps necessary in the retrieval of information."
-He doesn't say you aren't bound by morale restrictions at all, heck this dude hasn't even met you before and your likely to look like you've done your fair share of killing so he may assume this about your character.
He does however in the quest hand in seem a little casual:
"Excellent! It was crucial that we collect that intelligence.
Well done, friend."
-reading between the lines, it said to me, how does it feel to be a torturer? It also made me feel a little guilty seen as he seemed so I happy I got the information for him without even a statement of remorse for the guy you just tortured.
"Enough! I've told you all that I know. Your continued abuse is senseless! "
-this is the last line of the prisoner in question. Its blizzard saying-"you tortured this guy, you habe the information, you should stop now"...Is that blizzard saying torture CAN be a necessity?
As a final comment, they wanted to make wrath darker then its predecessors, this has been portrayed through Hellscreams son pushing for a more violent Horde and perhaps provoking civil war and the DK quest lines. These torture quests seem to be another element to get this across. It did seem a little bit like a back alley torture up in that tower, I had a player watching me at the time, I wonder what he thought? :) They could have made it a little more obvious though I suppose. I would have had more objection to the torture if I hadn;t had any contact with the Beryl Sorcerors previously :P
Something to leave you with though, I know this is WoWwiki's straight forward style but how robotic and senseless does this sound:
"The Imprisoned Beryl Sorcerer can be found on the second floor of the mage tower on Amber Ledge in Borean Tundra. Players are to torture him with the [Neural Needler] while completing [71] The Art of Persuasion"
Do tanks get the most out of PuGs?
Jul 27th 2009 11:19AM (WoW)This post just proves that some players just don't have the knowledge, when fighting Ingvar, or any boss for that matter, melee dps should be behind the boss anyway it's a basic requirement if you want to max your dps, but if you're a new player, and you've just started dungeons at 70 (because lets face it, blizz hasn't put anything in the game to motivate players to run lower lv dungeons meaning people do not learn before 70) then you aren't going to know you're attacks are less likely to land a blow due to the boss parrying from the front. Are the players ever informed of this fact inside game? Nope, maybe on the tip on loading screen, but it's all chance which tip you get and said players may not even bother to look.
What I think the game may need is some boss training quests going through the levels. At every tenth lv you get a mail from you're classes instructor to meet you in the capital city for training and the chance to earn an exclusive reward (an item that will greatly improve levelling, maybe a weapon that gives a stacking 10% XP bonus, but breaks, and must be repaired by your instructor after doing a quest at the next 10th level). This trainer would phase you into an arena type place that places you in a 5man group of npcs, and you get to chose your role in the group. This then determines the script for the instructor. Then, with your 5man group consisting of yourself and 5NPC's, you fight a boss which speaks with voice acting, starting off with the basics of your class and role at level 10, and building in different boss mechanics up to lv 80, where at level 80 you get to fight a complex boss giving you a starter package of emblems of X, some consumables, some gold and a final lecture from your instructor on how to gem and enchant you're gear for raiding. I think, apart from being a cool reward to look forward to every 10 lvs this could go some way to helping said players, I would also like to see some loading screen advertisements for reference sites like Tankspot, wow.com, buffd.net, wcradio.com and some blogs-make the loading screen something really interesting!
Looking at your post Allison, I agree with what you have said, a good tank definitely has it easier as I know from my 80 warrior tank-he sails through 5mans and because I know what I'm doing, the dps don't get hurt, There's plenty of time for healers to react to a good tanks health going down, and good tanks have a sixth sense when it comes to "oh [expletive]" buttons buying even more time for a slow to react healer....But my first experience as a Holy Paladin was frightful. I collected my holy gear as a prot pally, my first healing heroic was the Nexus @ 1400 SP, 25% crit. You really are at the mercy of all the other players in there, with the worst bosses being little-miss-threesome (if the dps can't kill the right ones quick you find yourself cc'd as a healer and you could find some people start dying), the dwarf boss (whirl butchering the unaware mage) and keristrasza box of debuff tricks and mini-enrage (the dps can take a lot of unnecessary damage due to no knowledge of the fight, low dps leading to a longer mini-enrage causing the healer to go into a coma if they have a mediocre healing set).
Toodles.
Do tanks get the most out of PuGs?
Jul 27th 2009 11:16AM (WoW)This post just proves that some players just don't have the knowledge, when fighting Ingvar, or any boss for that matter, melee dps should be behind the boss anyway it's a basic requirement if you want to max your dps, but if you're a new player, and you've just started dungeons at 70 (because lets face it, blizz hasn't put anything in the game to motivate players to run lower lv dungeons meaning people do not learn before 70) then you aren't going to know you're attacks are less likely to land a blow due to the boss parrying from the front. Are the players ever informed of this fact inside game? Nope, maybe on the tip on loading screen, but it's all chance which tip you get and said players may not even bother to look.
What I think the game may need is some boss training quests going through the levels. At every tenth lv you get a mail from you're classes instructor to meet you in the capital city for training and the chance to earn an exclusive reward (an item that will greatly improve levelling, maybe a weapon that gives a stacking 10% XP bonus, but breaks, and must be repaired by your instructor after doing a quest at the next 10th level). This trainer would phase you into an arena type place that places you in a 5man group of npcs, and you get to chose your role in the group. This then determines the script for the instructor. Then, with your 5man group consisting of yourself and 5NPC's, you fight a boss which speaks with voice acting, starting off with the basics of your class and role at level 10, and building in different boss mechanics up to lv 80, where at level 80 you get to fight a complex boss giving you a starter package of emblems of X, some consumables, some gold and a final lecture from your instructor on how to gem and enchant you're gear for raiding. I think, apart from being a cool reward to look forward to every 10 lvs this could go some way to helping said players, I would also like to see some loading screen advertisements for reference sites like Tankspot, wow.com, buffd.net, wcradio.com and some blogs-make the loading screen something really interesting!
Looking at your post Allison, I agree with what you have said, a good tank definitely has it easier as I know from my 80 warrior tank-he sails through 5mans and because I know what I'm doing, the dps don't get hurt, There's plenty of time for healers to react to a good tanks health going down, and good tanks have a sixth sense when it comes to "oh [expletive]" buttons buying even more time for a slow to react healer....But my first experience as a Holy Paladin was frightful. I collected my holy gear as a prot pally, my first healing heroic was the Nexus @ 1400 SP, 25% crit. You really are at the mercy of all the other players in there, with the worst bosses being little-miss-threesome (if the dps can't kill the right ones quick you find yourself cc'd as a healer and you could find some people start dying), the dwarf boss (whirl butchering the unaware mage) and keristrasza box of debuff tricks and mini-enrage (the dps can take a lot of unnecessary damage due to no knowledge of the fight, low dps leading to a longer mini-enrage causing the healer to go into a coma if they have a mediocre healing set).
More after the break! (=D)
Breakfast Topic: Would you play a Worgen or a Goblin?
Jul 20th 2009 7:52AM (WoW)Imagine how awesome it would be if you rolled a Worgen and had the option to transform into a Worgen at a certain server time with changing racials and extra abilities :))
Patch 3.2 changes the tiered Emblem system
Jun 18th 2009 6:20PM (WoW)Say hello to the Raid Killer patch. Not only will people run less raids due to risk-reward, but once this gets around, all current raids up until patch are completely worthless gear-wise.
Breakfast Topic: That spec you hate
May 20th 2009 9:39AM (WoW)Taste for blood procs every 6 seconds without glyph of rend..SO you do know when TfB procs.
You should let rend fall off as the last TfB proc is up when it falls off, keeping it up before it leaves will lose you a gcd & and OP.
The question: Holy, lag DOES kill :(
Wrath 101: PvP welfare gear
Dec 19th 2008 3:30AM (WoW)Richard Bartle responds to "torture quest" issue
Dec 3rd 2008 8:56AM (Massively)Having done the quest just the other day, it did make me question the darker tone blizzard seem to be bringing in to the game. I actually left my character stood there for a few mins and thought about it before shocking the guy. Until I got called for tea and tortured him for everything he was worth :P But I think Bartle misses something, I have read his blog but the quest log had some very important information that rings the bell, and told me, wait a minute, I'm doing this for a quest, I HAVE to do it to progress, but blizz does recognize it is wrong and I think they wanted us to try it out and then reflect as we are doing now.
"You see, the Kirin Tor code of conduct frowns upon our taking certain 'extreme' measures - even in desperate times such as these."
-They recognize it is extreme, even in a state of war. This is a red flag and he clearly doesn't want to perform the act, in my opinion, hiding behind the code of conduct.
"You, however, as an outsider, are not bound by such restrictions and could take any steps necessary in the retrieval of information."
-He doesn't say you aren't bound by morale restrictions at all, heck this dude hasn't even met you before and your likely to look like you've done your fair share of killing so he may assume this about your character.
He does however in the quest hand in seem a little casual:
"Excellent! It was crucial that we collect that intelligence.
Well done, friend."
-reading between the lines, it said to me, how does it feel to be a torturer? It also made me feel a little guilty seen as he seemed so I happy I got the information for him without even a statement of remorse for the guy you just tortured.
"Enough! I've told you all that I know. Your continued abuse is senseless! "
-this is the last line of the prisoner in question. Its blizzard saying-"you tortured this guy, you habe the information, you should stop now"...Is that blizzard saying torture CAN be a necessity?
As a final comment, they wanted to make wrath darker then its predecessors, this has been portrayed through Hellscreams son pushing for a more violent Horde and perhaps provoking civil war and the DK quest lines. These torture quests seem to be another element to get this across. It did seem a little bit like a back alley torture up in that tower, I had a player watching me at the time, I wonder what he thought? :) They could have made it a little more obvious though I suppose. I would have had more objection to the torture if I hadn;t had any contact with the Beryl Sorcerors previously :P
Something to leave you with though, I know this is WoWwiki's straight forward style but how robotic and senseless does this sound:
"The Imprisoned Beryl Sorcerer can be found on the second floor of the mage tower on Amber Ledge in Borean Tundra. Players are to torture him with the [Neural Needler] while completing [71] The Art of Persuasion"