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Reader Comments (81)

Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 8:16PM Sean D said

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"Not every guild can have a guild bank, unfortunately. You have to have a minimum of 15 members in the guild in order to obtain one. On top of that there is a cost for each vault: 600k credits for the first, 1 million for the second, 2 million for the third, and 3.5 million for the fourth. Beyond that, we are not sure; however, we do know the total vaults can number seven."

Other than the limitations to guild acquiring a guild bank and the initial 600,000 credit cost to open up the initial panel, both of which are very disconcerting, the system sounds robust. I don't know what it is that Bioware is trying to accomplish by requiring such inflated fees to gain such basic services that are often readily available to players in other MMOs. The fees attached to unlocking legacy services, such as the R2 unit, are another example of this. Once you reach the required milestone, the service should be free. At that point, you've already paid your dues in time.

Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 8:26PM Issmir said

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@Sean D
It is weird, I agree. I feel that what SWTOR does well, it does VERY well. Everything else feels either tired or poorly thought through. Why should a smaller guild be gated from a guild bank, for example?
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Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 9:03PM Shirvington said

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@Sean D These fees suggest that they are meant to combat inflation.
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Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 9:21PM Graill440 said

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@Sean D

Re-read your post, not a hit on you Sean D, but your blog piece mixed with the quote is just so absurdly funny. A person has to ask, what were these devs thinking.....
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Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 9:38PM Sean D said

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@Graill440

I can't fathom Bioware. They're running invite-a-friend promotions and losing players, (so I hear--they say they're 'stabilized,' apparently, at 1.7 million, which is a joke as MMOs don't really stabilize) due to lack of content and the lack of these exact mechanics in the game and yet, even though they're implementing these mechanics now, they're making them inaccessible to a percentage of their playerbase. It's like they're saying to those who run small guilds, "We know you wanted this. We're sorry it wasn't there at the outset. Here it is now. It's in the game. You can't have it."

I'm currently subscribed. I've been hoping that 1.2 would reinvigorate the game for me and others, but I'm losing interest.
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Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 10:36PM Allegos said

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@Sean D

My random, uninformed guess: If players are avoiding the endgame Operations in droves, the guild size requirement might be a passive-aggressive way of encouraging guilds to become big enough to consider doing the Raids.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 1:16AM Khal said

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@Allegos

It may very well have the opposite effect. I'm in the same boat as Sean D in being in a guild of 8 or 9 people (with more than 15 characters). Even if counts alts toward the 15, the $600K is still a sizeable chunk of change. It certainly wouldn't push us to raid or "endgame", two things us older gamers (mid 30s) have zero interest in.

If anything it push us away from the game period. It's not like there are a couple of solid looking replacement choices of MMOs coming up.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 1:50AM Buhallin said

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@Khal 600K credits is not a lot of money. Neither is the million. Will it take some amount of effort? Sure, but probably less than a week. Our guild of 7 players is running a donation drive - we have 2 50s, everyone else is mid-40s or so, and currently have 1.3 million in the fund before I add my own considerable resources.

Do you have to work a bit to acquire it? Sure. But Belsavis (and soon Corellia) dailies turn out some serious cash, and collection of crafting materials to sell can make a stunning amount of money (my main is only 48, I have over 11 million credits through nothing but craft mat farming). Red Goo is currently selling for 2K a piece on my server, consistently - assuming some similar prices, you need all of 3 stacks collected to get the first tab.

Honestly, 600K is a pretty trivial goal for a SINGLE player - if you're really scared by it with a guild of 8-9 players, something's wrong.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 8:01AM Repopulation said

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@Sean D 600k divided among 15 members is NOTHING in SWTOR. FYI.

That is 40k each.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 8:25AM (Unverified) said

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@Shirvington Inflation... This game doesn't have inflation. It has hyper-inflation that is so bad that the economy is broken in every meaningful way... It's clearly a single-player economy/reward system.

Look at sliceing Before they nerf you could make a money as fast as you could print it in mission running. After the nerf it was sill over a 30% return running 20-minute missions. Plus all the money laying around.

By the time my slicer hit 25, he had almost 250K AFTER he bought the speeder and training. When he hit his 30's, he was a millionaire. I could see it if he was my smuggler. But he was a Jedi. A millionaire Jedi somewhere in the mid-30s...

And I was hardly 'rich.' We had guild members who were multi-millionaires before they quit. Just rolling in credits with nothing to spend them on...
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 8:26AM Vladeon said

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@Repopulation

600k divided among 15 players is about one day of dailies for each person. Just divide up into a few groups and knock out your dailies and you'll have the money in no time.

Also, about the OP's insistence that the requirements for things are too stringent and alienating a percentage of the player base, consider this. If you have a guild of only 5 people or so, do you really need a shared guild bank? It seems to me that a small enough guild should be able to ask each other for things. Using 5 guild member banks as your guild bank is more economical and only slightly more inconvenient. Just because something is difficult to obtain with a smaller amount of people doesn't mean that it's bad. Some things should be harder to obtain with less people. It's hard to get Rakata gear when you only have 8 people in your guild because you can't raid as often, does that mean that Bioware should make it easier for people to get Rakata gear?

A lot of the allure to MMOs is the feeling of prestige that players get out of time invested into it. If you can't invest as much time into the game as some others, you shouldn't be able to get these prestige items as quickly or easily.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 8:31AM Machineman said

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@Sean D Because they have such an incredibly simplistic view of MMY economy dynamics. Simply making a huge money sink to them equals content. They're not good at this, period.

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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 9:24AM Malagarr said

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@Sean D

The credit cost associated with just about everything being added is the only real gripe I have about TOR atm. I understand it to some degree, but the first tab in a guild bank should really be free for every guild out there.

I can't speak about any fees for unlocking legacy stuff yet, since I haven't seen it.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 10:40AM (Unverified) said

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@Sean D

Lack of content? Are you kidding me? The game is almost 4 months old and it has as much to do or more as any game released and at the same age. All gamers today have ADHD.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 10:41AM (Unverified) said

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@Sean D

U don't need 15 people to open a guild bank anymore. They dropped it down already.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 10:42AM (Unverified) said

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@Khal

How does lack of a guild bank push you away from the game? Even if they allowed it to smaller guilds, 9 people is 67,000 credits each for 1 slot.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 11:08AM Shirvington said

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@(Unverified) "Just rolling in credits with nothing to spend them on... " Thank you for proving my point. 1.2 will bring PLENTY of things to spend those credits on.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 12:44PM Anatidae said

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@Issmir Honestly, smaller guilds can just be farmer bots. I can see wanting to have a guild size over a number to help discourage the use of guild vaults as just glorified personal bank storage for gold farmers.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 3:09PM Sean D said

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@(Unverified)

This is good news.
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Posted: Apr 4th 2012 3:30PM Sean D said

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@Buhallin

Here's my situation in the game:

I'm a 48th level consular. I've been playing since release. A number of my friends and I started a guild a week or so after release, but many of them have left--two reached 50, got bored, and quit, one moved to another server to play on the Empire side because it suits his personality better, and the rest have largely gone inactive even though they still maintain subscriptions. That leaves two of us who play once or twice weekly as we are able and we always team up. Both of us are crafters and have collected enough materials each to easily fill up a single panel of personal bank space, and we're always collecting. We sell very little if any of our materials on the trade network because we prefer to use the materials for improving our own recipes. Neither of us particularly enjoy rerunning dailies as repeating content is, well, boring. Personally, I've never had more than 400K credits in my account.

Money may be easy to come by for you, but for me it is not. My friend and I may be able to pool our resources to open a single panel for us to use to exchange crafting materials, but the 300K each will significantly dent our wallets and hamper our ability to acquire other in-game services later, such as tier 3 mounts, legacy unlocks, etc. What would it hurt Bioware to make the initial bank panel available to all for free? After that, they could charge any price they want. I don't think this is an unreasonable request.

The argument has been made that perhaps my friend and I don't need a guild bank. I'm sure we would be able to continue on in the game without one, but to do so will mean that, at least where guild banks are concerned, the added service means nothing to us. This, at a time when we're looking for and discussing reasons to keep playing.

The argument has been made that some things should be difficult to acquire. I agree with this to an extent as well. However, at this point in the game, I can say that restricting one guild bank panel to those who can shell out 600K right off the bat is doing more to push us away than it is to motivate us to play more. It's a balancing act and the way the systems are being implemented right now is out-of-balance in my mind.

I can hear the argument that ToR may not be the game for my friend and I. I'm having a hard time thinking of ways to argue that one.

I'm sincerely glad the game has some loyal enthusiasts--those who are willing to support the decisions Bioware is making--but I think these decisions require more thought. My questions aren't intended to sow dissent.
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