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Reader Comments (150)

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 1:08PM Utakata said

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@Cassius81

Hey, that's just not cool.

Just so you know, The Mittani has also come under some personal *cyber-bullying attacks over this...to which is simply horrifying. And I know, many would love to see this in light of Massively's dubios apology over this. But in doing so also justifies it. Cyber-bulling is bad, not matter whose is doing it and for whatever reason.

*Source: http://spinksville.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/eve-how-not-to-do-in-game-out-of-game-boundaries/

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 1:16PM Lenn said

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@ShawnSchuster Calling the guy a cyber bully isn't exactly a personal attack, Shawn. If it looks like a duck, etc.

As to this quote of yours:

"No one wants a Google search of his name to turn up a word like that, and avoiding that cross-over into real life is completely understandable."

HE was the one who initially made the cross-over into real life by goading others into bullying another player to the point of suicide. If a possible future undesired Google search is really his concern, he should have thought twice about doing what he did.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 4:08PM Utakata said

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@Lenn

As a good example of this with Google searches with undesired name associations...I wasn't aware that *Rick Santorum ever legally went after sex columnist Dan Savage over he did with his name. And this guy is running for Republican presidentail nomination. It's also pretty obvious it hasn't hurt him....especially in conservative states. So at worst Mittens should suck it in and get over it.

*Note: Incase anyone curious enough to look that up; NSFW!! - you've been warned!
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 1:24PM ScottishViking said

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"[Update: Apparently this article is too long for some to read, so let me summarize by saying we're only apologizing to our readers for the code of conduct violation. No apology at all is given to the Goons. Please read the article.]"

That is a very condescending message to send. As someone who did read the article and who disagrees with your response to the Goons/Mittani: The apologies amount to the same thing in effect. You can't tell me you would have made these changes and apologies had they not given you grief about it! It's not about your motives, it's about what the apology MEANS. By conceding -- wrongly -- that your writer had engaged in "cyber-bullying," you not only caved in to the demands of a known and self-acknowledged bully (and leader of a group of bullies), but you also tarnished the editorial integrity of your website. Besides the fact that the original article contained what was in retrospect an accurate depiction of events and characterization of the key players, the fact that you have demonstrated a willingness to retcon your own editorial (and opinion-based) material represents a fundamental flaw in your journalistic ethics.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 1:50PM Space Cobra said

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@ScottishViking

I gotta speak up a bit. Massively has a policy of not participating or allowing personal attics: It is about debate and differences of opinion. While we can all call out, "A Duck is a Duck", Massively has to live by its own rules. It tries to be "fair" in calling out the shots. The articles and responses are still up on this site (I have not checked out the other sites), just the title has been editted.

You could say Gianturco used Massively's rules against itself; that's what Goons do to gain the advantage (ie : HPrime's comment) to white-wash Alex. You could say certain Goons or groups took it upon themselves to aid their leader and pointed it out. I think Shawn realizes this after the verbal interview/exchange between Brendan and Alex Gianturco. I think if Massively was not "called out" (or "informed) about the term, it still would be up. It's up to them to be as fair as they can. They succeed sometimes and don't at others: only human.

So, this seems more like your typical "re-alignment", while it is a bit unfortunate, it is not really Massively's fault (although Shawn does say Massively has received much mail from Goon and Goon-supporters). We do know Goons and Gianturco/Mittani have encouraged such off-game tactics in the past. While the article topic is unfortunate, the greater internet knows a "black pot" and "a kettle" when they see it and this does seem to still apply to the Goons and their leader.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 1:53PM Space Cobra said

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@Space Cobra

...while I hope each has a "personal attic", I hope they follow the rules of not allowing "personal attacks". ;P

Damn edits!
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 1:35PM Lenn said

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"Update: Apparently this article is too long for some to read, so let me summarize by saying we're only apologizing to our readers for the code of conduct violation. No apology at all is given to the Goons. Please read the article."

Oh, so it was Massively readers that were harassing you guys, not the actual cyber bullies who were offended by the use of the term "cyber bully" and decided to show their indignation by doing some more cyber bullying?

Again, the term "cyber bully" did not constitute a personal attack. He looked like a duck, walked like a duck and quacked like a duck. Odd are, he is a duck.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 2:06PM Dunraven said

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@Utakata Those so called threats are said to have been done by Goon members to make Mittens look like the victim; it wouldn't be the first time the Goons have done their social engineering Voodoo.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 2:22PM peyo01 said

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I think the only proper word to describe this Mittani guy is: cyber BS.

Keep on the good job Brendan, I really appreciate your column and nothing you wrote initially did shock me in any way. You described quite well what happened and you staid very neutral in your description. The guy got caught with the hand in the cookie-jar, he could not stand it and had to find somebody else to blame to cope with all this.

However, I understand it is Shawn's responsibility to make you amend the initial articles to avoid any possibility of legal actions against Massively.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 2:54PM Wensbane said

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I still can't believe that article was edited. I am, quite literally, in shock.

We're caving in to bullies now? Apologizing to them, even?

I honestly don't know what's wrong with the world today, but one thing is certain, if we can't even stand up and fight for most vulnerable members of our society, then we might as well just give the Goons what they want and jump off the nearest bridge. I mean it.

A person could've died as the result of this guy's actions! Some of you, apparently, don't want to acknowledge that.
This goes way beyond our little "video games" and "internet spaceships". Forget about EVE for a second and think about the victim's mental health.

This is an adult topic with adult participants. Behave accordingly!

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 3:23PM StClair said

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"Stop calling me a bully, or my friends and I will BEAT THE **** OUT OF YOU!"

Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 7:46PM (Unverified) said

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@StClair Pretty much! While, technically speaking Alex isn't *himself* a cyber-bully, he did incite others to be. Then again...I'm not too sure about what to think about the Goons sometime. You have some of them that do good things, such as the great job at GCCX subtitling...and then there's the stories I keep seeing about the Eve types, which makes them definitely shallow enough that even if the guy actually *did* commit suicide as a result of their actions instead of it being just dramatic hyperbole, they'd still be sitting around patting themselves on the back and laughing about it. :-/
Granted, a good portion of this is possibly person/persona split. It's quite likely that a lot of these people acting like total a**holes in the game could still be quite nice people offline--rather than ones where you'd want to know where the nearest security officer is if you ran into them at a convention...
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Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 9:19PM StClair said

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The Greater Internet ******* Theory strikes again. :(
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 3:52PM Utakata said

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@Dunraven

That is distinctly plausible, and I even suspect you could be right. But even with a history, it is not evidence they did it this time. Since how do we really know they did it this time and not someone outside of the Goon circle doing this as an act of revenge? We don't. And thus the probability of it being them or not is still in reasonable doubt.

However, this is not the point. The point is cyber-bullying. And again it's wrong not matter who is doing it and for whatever reasons. Therefore, we should avoid justifying it.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 5:11PM (Unverified) said

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The funny part is that the Mittani is a total **** and a complete waste of space. You've given him far better treatment than the low-life deserves.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2012 9:09PM Bramen said

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Clearly Massively has no idea how bullies operate.

They bully as far as they can go. When they get caught or called out they employ one of three tactics, or sometimes all three.
The 1st they intimidate the person trying to stand up for the bullied.
The second they try to say that they were just teasing or fake fighting.
The third they try to claim that they were the ones being bullied.

It seems like the_Mittani used all three tactics perfectly. This is classic textbook cyber bullying. 1st an online medium was used to cause stress toward the bullied person. Then it was taken offline to cause terror for the victim. When challenged the textbook defenses were used. They "bystander" (Massively) then did a classic textbook response by backing down. The_Mittani then cyber-bullied Massively, and has them on the defensive.

Read a book. Get a clue, The_Mittani is a cyber bully.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Bully-Bullied-Bystander-School-How/dp/006001430X

Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 9:15AM (Unverified) said

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@Bramen

Exactly.

Basically Alexander Gianturco the cyber-bully is the kind of weenie that likes to brag about his cyber-bullying antics in public, and then starts crying when people take him up on his public actions and statements.

You don't want to be considered a cyber-bully? Then don't act like one.

Considering the verifyable facts, there was nothing wrong with the original article, and the current retraction of the term that may make Alex Gianturco the cyber-bully and his cyber-bullying Goons perhaps start looking at their own actions is rather disappointing.

BUT we should not let the Goons now succeed in their tactic of now focussing on Massively instead of the problems Alexander Gianturco the cyber-bully and his cyber-bully Goons cause for EVE, MMO's, and gaming in general.
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Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 3:27AM Utakata said

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@(Unverified)

I believe that was my point.

Mittens should be nailed to the wall for this. But so should the others who do it to him.

Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 5:07AM Tharvick said

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Unfortunately, this type of behaviour has spread from Goons to most of the alliances in their coalition (which including goons is somewhere at the 30,000 figure).

For example, one of the goon pet alliances 'Gentlemen's Agreement' has players openly running an empire miner 'ganking' operation atm, targeting highsec industrial players in order to generate 'tears' in local, as they brag about on threads on their own forums.

The alliance heads (lake & kesper) were sending out mails to entire alliance urging them to vote for Gianturco to enhance their image as 'goons most loyal pets'.

Meanwhile on goons own forums (many parts of which accessable by non-goon coalition allies), one posted boasts of scamming 80bil isk off some player obviously suffering from mental health issues - he sent pics of his slashed arms which were posted up by goons and seem to be a great source of entertainment to the SA/goon community there, judging by the commentry.

The problem with eve is this SA/goon 'culture' has spread to encompass a large minority of the community there.

Posted: Apr 3rd 2012 8:34AM Surelle said

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CCP Soundwave knew Alexander "The Mittani" Gianturco was going to try and get Eve's player base at large to commit suicide at CCP's Fan Faire and yet they did nothing. Goonswarm has been in bed with CCP for years (certain GMs and devs are Goons).

It's not surprising that pathetic lowlife Gianturco would be using Goons out-of-game to threaten and harass a Massively Staffer and Massively itself after what else he's done. It *is* surprising, however, that Massively chose to recant, when its article did nothing wrong.

I think the problem that Gianturco really has is that he cannot threaten and squelch Massively readers who don't play Eve but see him for the sleazebag he really is. He's stuck being known across the internet as a cyber-bully-- and now so is the whole of Goon, as he is using them to continually bully and threaten even more people.

And waiting for CCP to do anything of note about this to either Gianturco or Goonswarm is futile. They're all in bed together so Goon has carte blanche. CCP is a sleazy company to begin with and this is just the latest in the dirt pile for them.

Speak with your wallets and your time: Don't play this game.

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