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Reader Comments (22)

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 10:36AM JuliusSeizure said

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CoH has so many temporary powers. You get them for just about everything. I love collecting them, not to use, but just to have because maybe someday I will use them to do silly, silly things. The weapon powers are the best, because you can hit the button to use them without a target and you'll draw the weapon for all to see without actually using it and losing a charge.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:15AM SnarlingWolf said

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I disagree with random loot being archaic. I see random loot from mobs as the best thing in MMO history and as a complete an utter shame that now instead everyone goes and runs the exact same quest and everyone goes and runs around in the exact same armor as everyone else.

Every game should have random drop loot. It is exciting, fun, and keeps things fun. And I do NOT mean random piece of loot dropping off of a Raid boss. I am refering to something like Asheron's Call where and minion on the map could drop the perfect weapon or piece of armor.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:21AM Deliverator said

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@SnarlingWolf

I understand your point, however I like it when mobs drop loot that makes sense. Animals should drop crafting mats not swords and shields.

"hey Deliv - where was that wolf carrying all that gold?"
Deliv- "ummm - just wash your hands before you eat"
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:53AM DarkWalker said

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@SnarlingWolf

I'm diametrically opposed to you regarding random loot.

I really dislike random loot when it comes to anything important. Even when I end up winning nice things. I feel more frustration due to the game proving me that luck is more important than skill regarding rewards than any potential excitement over whatever item I've won.

The only situation where I don't care about random loot is when dealing with sub-par equipment or vendor trash. Otherwise, I would rather play a game where rewards have a good degree of certainty than one where each mob is a little lottery.
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 12:03PM SnarlingWolf said

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@DarkWalker

Unfortunately there are no quests that require skill to get through so no one is being rewarded on their skill.

Either a quest is so easy a caveman could do it, or a quest is setup where there is a paint by numbers set of instructions to follow to win it 100% of the time.

That isn't being rewarded for skill, it is being reward for following the cheese through the maze.

The biggest problem for me is it makes killing any creature 100% unexciting because I KNOW that it can't possibly drop anything that is good or interesting, it is just a way to get a little bit of xp and money. With random loot and the possibility that any creature can drop the best of the best, every kill becomes exciting because that could be the one.
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 1:17PM (Unverified) said

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@SnarlingWolf

archaic

1.Very old or old-fashioned.
2.No longer in everyday use but sometimes used to impart an old-fashioned flavor.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2012 10:56PM (Unverified) said

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@SnarlingWolf
If randomly getting the best weapon in the game off of a lowbie wolf in the forest is more fun to you than pushing through the simple quests to earn it (however easy it may be), that's just grand. Random loot, to me, is completely stupid. DarkWalker had it right, he just needed to affirm to you that there should be challenges worthy of the rewards. Digging through gimme quests (or worse, dailies; I'm so excited to kill ten rats every day for a month!) is just as bad as you say, but that wasn't really the point.

Look up the requirements for the old classic WoW weapons Benediction and Rhok'Delar, if you haven't seen 'em before; basically, they pitted a solo player face to face with an enemy or challenge that would normally require a holy trinity of multiple players. And it was made specifically solo (enemies despawned or quest status was "failure" if anyone helped). That feels a hell of a lot more worth it than happening to win the MOB pinata lottery (or the raid guild loot council lottery, which can be worse).

More challenges like that should be involved in MMOs, not slot machines shaped like violent animals. More gameplay that you can do any time (see: casually) but that really pushes your ability to play the game and your character. You don't have to be the straw-man "basement dweller hardcore" to obtain the items through an endless war of attrition with the random number generator, but you can't be the straw-man "Farmville-bred welfare-epics casual" and expect to get the best stuff cheap as free.

That's not to say that every game would benefit from this. Fun, flashy grind-fests the likes of which Korea tends to make certainly maintain a strong following and have their place, and some of the random-drop stuff can be interesting and fun, or at least ridiculous enough to be entertaining, if applied properly. It's just irksome when it proliferates out to every single MOB in a game, and every single worthwhile item is either thrown at you through mindless EZmode quests or hidden within a vortex of uncertainty. Both of these suck. Getting rewarded for doing well is awesome.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2012 11:08PM (Unverified) said

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@SnarlingWolf
And just to add, there's nothing wrong with lots of enemies having the chance to drop something really good, if it makes sense. Maybe you found that awesome dagger still stuck in this bear from the last adventurer they devoured; that's fair.

So long as there is another, more direct way to obtain the same rewards, frustration can be avoided. It's great to stumble across something awesome, but if it's something you really, actively want to obtain... well, you might as well be doing kill X rats quests. At least with quests, you know how many X is.
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:18AM Deliverator said

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Loot that gets me excited about a game?
Housing items and appearance items (hats, sunglasses etc) are way up there on that list.
I guess that's why I'm so anti-cash shop. I can pay a subscription until I'm blue in the face, but as soon as there's a cash shop all of that stuff goes there. I could care less if it's "cosmetic" or "non game-affecting" To me, they're part of what makes a virtual world a virtual world so it's game-affecting to me.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:23AM Deliverator said

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@Deliverator
in b4 "couldn't care less"
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:26AM Ocho said

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Did you write this entire article for that last line? If you did, I heartily approve.

If not, then the article was still on-point. Loot has to mean something, and small incremental upgrades of power just don't cut it in the whole reward vs time-invested curve. Power comes with time and skill, but looking cool while doing it is priceless.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 12:00PM DarkWalker said

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What I myself like: almost everything that can be collected, as long as it does not occupy bag space. WoW's pets and mounts, and DCUO's styles, are a perfect example.

BTW, I really don't like seeing major gear upgrades. They are often a sign that the game has a bad case of gear inflation, and besides a major upgrade often means that pieces of challenging content I liked have now became boring facerolls.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 12:01PM ntellect said

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Sorry for going off-topic. WHAT Cartoon is that character in the picture from? I want to say C.O.P.S! I love the old school toons you bring back from time to time :)

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 1:27PM (Unverified) said

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@ntellect Good eye, it is from C.O.P.S.!
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Posted: Mar 26th 2012 2:42AM blackcat7k said

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@(Unverified)

Doctor Mindbender I believe.
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Posted: Mar 26th 2012 2:46AM blackcat7k said

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@blackcat7k


Ack! I meant to say: Dr. Badvibes.

That was completely unforgivable. Confusing my G.I. Joe with C.O.P.S.
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 1:39PM Yog said

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The only loot that ever got me excited was the artifact armor and the elemental staves in FFXI. At the time they were both pretty amazing achievements since obtaining the artifact armor is a very involved process and the elemental staves are extremely expensive to buy or make. Also, the artifact armor is super iconic and the elemental staves are just cool.

Also, most items in FFXI aren't really necessary...in most MMOs each armor tier is a large boost to your stats but most of the gear in FFXI is either a modest boost or very specialized (such as the elemental staves).

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 2:41PM Borick said

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The more I put it behind me, the more I miss those soul-crippling quest rewards from EverQuest. The cleric epic weapon, once you had it, it was more than a badge of personal accomplishment -- it was proof that dozens of others had your back at any time of the day or night.

I don't want to advocate 70-hour spawn camping or 3AM raid wakeup calls, but we seem to have gone from a system that required altruistic behavior to one that only supports sports-team cooperation in a single-serving environment.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 5:12PM Space Cobra said

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@Borick

Actually, while I don't like all that effort, i do agree with you. I do feel that if someone went through all that trouble in-game, they should be one of the few to wear such things.

However, i do feel you can also provide something similar to "casual players" in a number of ways. Either Very Limited availability in the game (either time or amount of items) via cash shop, Season or "Special Quest" and/or out of game options, like the popular, "Attend our event and we give you a code". Codes in Merchandise/cards work for me (but I have time/money).

The thing here is, that such items should look significantly different from other items of the same nature (or even in-game drops). They shouldn't "cheese" things by having just the same item but recolored. Some items could look similar, but have differences when seen close up (maybe made of different materials; put on a different texture. Like one hat could be made of bamboo and another hat could be made of jade stone) or at least some differing detail, preferably added to the model.
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 5:31PM Space Cobra said

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1) While I do enjoy and like Vanity pets, they've always been a little iffy for me. They are fun, but they tend to be of small size and do not do much of anything besides follow you and have unique idle animations.

I sorta prefer something *big* maybe even something you can ride; yes it could be a "mount" but it would be nice to have your horse follow you like a pet at certain times. It would also be nice to either give them a command or even /emote as a vanity pet. In this, I feel "Free Realms" does it best! You can teach your vanity pets to do tricks (so you spend time using them instead of they just following you) and you can break out the taught trick(s) when you want. Also, they have a wide variety of pets. There are some slightly bigger pets, so there is still room for improvement (I am looking at you, Clifford, the Big Red Dog! And yeah, what a lag fest a convention of such large pet owners may cause!).

4) Gear that looks cool: Always this. I will keep low-level stat gear because it is cool (or cooler than what I currently have). This is still a problem for me in SWTOR sadly.

You know, with the "modular recipes" Funcom's "Secret World" gives, why can't this be taken further into actual in-game 3d CAD modeling? You could have a variety of "set parts" but just give an option to position such items in different ways (Like, make a shirt pocket a separate CAD model and have the ability to stick it anywhere, like on a hat or seat of pants.) Of course, such objects probably would need an upper limit of how many seperate elements one is allowed to put on specific areas/pieces.

5) One-Shot toys: I like 'em and I hate 'em! I tend to be a "unique snowflake" so if they are too available, I don't use them. I've run into places that many people do, so that does turn me off from using mine (it shouldn't, I admit). The main reason I hate them is they occupy precious Bag/Inventory space! Make a separate area for them. Most of my SWTOR CE items spend their time in my bank because my bag space fills up too fast!

7) I feel is a cop out because this goes, in my mind, with other general items. I know some games are sparse on offering such items, but other games do it well. For me, a few characters I tend to use in different RPGs tend to wear helmets/masks over their faces that the more they cover, the better. So add more full-face masks!

10) Dyes: Well, if a game is gonna limit you in color (and I admit many do) that would go counter to my point to Borick (Don't give me the same stuff recolored). Unfortunately, it is the norm, so that is why dyes are special. I am spoiled by CoH, but if you are gonna limit colors (and black seems to be a favorite to limit) Dyes would be perfect drops (ala Warhammer online).

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