| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (209)

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:10PM FireWraith said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Lenn

I agree, but I don't think that Guild Wars was competing with the same market that Guild Wars 2 will be. The removal of instancing, the raise in level cap, and the large public quest system puts it into the MMO category.

MMOers want new content fast and constant, and while Guild Wars has certainly had content updates, the speed of updates is nothing compared to how fast Rift or SWTOR are releasing new raids/dungeons/etc. If they don't have the cash flow to keep up with demand, their only option is to put more enticing items in the cash shop. It's their only play if they need more money to keep the member base happy.

Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:12PM j3w3l said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@FireWraith
I'm sorry but i hardly call Lotro's new additions to the cash shop p2win since they are not even close to being end game. Their backflip in attitudes is a little annoying but at best these items are only a convenience since they only really offer an advantage to leveling speed (and a small one} and isn't that the point.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:14PM alzeer said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Lenn its "running" but other than events and balance patches the game didn't get real content updates since EoTN
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:15PM Cyclone Jack said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@FireWraith said "Any "successful" micro-transaction system involves items that they want the player to feel they NEED. They need that in order to make money. If they don't do that, they don't make money."

It depends on how often they come out with expansions. If they do an expansion every year, then all they really need in the shop are vanity items and account services, though I'm sure they'll have a few convenience items as well. Just look at GW1 and at the number of people that are walking around with vanity gear. I'd call that successful.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 5:06PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@alzeer Your point?
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 5:40PM alzeer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Lenn my point is for GW2 to stay competitive in this market it will require more than GW1 version of "running"
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 6:35PM CleanUndies said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@FireWraith

Win what exactly? This game is largely PvE and the PvP parts are mostly balanced. Gear is NOT the deciding factor when it comes to gameplay. Everything that you can get in the cash-shop can be bought using in game currency. Even if someone chooses to spend a large amount of money in the cash-shop does not mean they will have an unfair advantage. this isn't the type of game that has "pay-to-win". Everything can be acquired by anyone who owns the game, period!
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 6:50PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@FireWraith I like both pay 2 pay and cash shop models, but neither are ultimately fair, and both economic models have some negative effect on the game design. With pay 2 play, they are trying to keep your subscription, so there is an incentive to draw out the content to such lengths that it is not fun. Having small amounts of content that you either repeat or that takes many many hours to complete is one way to keep players paying longer. This also means that the game unfairly rewards those players who have the time to actually proceed in the game versus those players who can only play a few hours a day.

Cash shop of course has its own downsides. It unfairly rewards richer players, as well as encouraging gameplay to be drawn out and grindy to encourage paying to make the game more fun. As you mentioned.

Really the only way to make a good game is for the developer to work around the limitations of the model. With the box purchase model, in theory, that should offset some of the need to support the game through the cash shop, with the cash shop only being a supplemental amount of income. In theory :) There is also the 5 year development costs they have to recoup, GW2 was much more expensive than GW1, and they are going to have much higher support costs...

So yeah, all concerns are warranted.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 6:53PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@alzeer The fact that GW1 is still successful makes it competitive.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 9:11PM Sean D said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Lenn

It can be argued that storage space is needed by some people with a certain play style. In GW1, without investing in the additional storage space, those who like to hang onto items for possible future use will quickly run out of space to store those items and be forced, reluctantly, to sell some of them. This is especially true in GW1 as the storage space is shared between all characters on the same account. In effect, by not providing enough storage space initially in the game (thereby creating a demand for storage space in the shop) and by making additional storage space accessible only through cash shop purchases, ArenaNet is facilitating one play style while hindering another.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 11:59PM Bhima said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@FireWraith

Or the player base could, you know, stop playing the game until an expansion comes out. There is this strange notion that we must constantly play an MMO all the time and if we have no content left to play (and don't like to roll alts or pvp) then we demand more content from the devs. This type of thinking comes directly from being forced to pay a monthly sub to play a game, and in that respect, yes I too would be demanding content. Since GW2 is a box buy game, and nothing in the cash shop is even remotely essential to be competitive, then there is really no reason to demand more content from them except for expansions.

Why is this so hard for people to embrace? We are ok with this with every other type of game but once you slap the "MMO" badge on it regardless of payment method, we demand more new content.


Reply

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 12:43AM Adeptus Enginus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@alzeer To be fair, the REASON it hasn't gotten content updates would be more related to the fact that the dev team has been busy with GW2, rather than lack of funding.

If lack of funding was the case, we wouldn't be getting the Beyond content, even if it is coming slowly. GW2 has been in development for SO long that if funds had dried up, NCsoft would have kicked them to the curb by now for wasting valuable resources.
Reply

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 2:15PM Buhallin said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Lenn I really wish people would stop comparing GW and GW2. Yes, Guild Wars did it without milking players too badly. But what are the relative development costs? What are the operating costs?

Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars. It's much bigger, it's going to have (assuming success) a massively larger active player base, and it's going to take a lot more money to recoup the initial development cost. It's also going to have more pressure to make money because it's so large, and because small changes scale more. You have 100,000 players and do something that charges them each $0.50, and it's $50K. Do it for 2 million players, and it's $1 million. You don't think there's going to be pressure to monetize that player base?

I freely (and happily) grant that Arena.net has a good history on this sort of thing. But there are all kinds of reasons why they're in uncharted territory here, and that makes predicting future actions based on that history difficult.
Reply

Posted: Mar 23rd 2012 1:23PM FireWraith said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Bhima

I'm pretty sure ANet would be the first ones to say they don't want their player base to go away in between each expansion. Their goal is to keep people hooked, playing, and paying.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 3:47PM Spacegrass said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
I think it'll be alright. Player skill is far more important than gear in Guild Wars 2, and skill can't be bought. I actually like how gems can be bought with gold, because it means that players who can't afford to use the cash shop will still be able to get some items from it.

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:08PM watchawatch said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Spacegrass This^^^^^^^^
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:33PM jeremys said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Spacegrass Runes of Magic did the exact same thing. They had diamonds and they operated exactly how GW2's gems are going to. Even the follow up explanation on how gems work might as well replace "GW2" with "Runes of Magic" and "gems" with "diamonds"

But all the problems above still happened to RoM. I think it's going to rest on how well they police the system and what value they place on activities in the game, and the items they sell toward those activities, in the cash shop.

I think we all hope you are right.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 4:45PM watchawatch said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@jeremys The purchase of Gold for Gems and vice versa is driven solely by the player market in RoM?
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 5:08PM jeremys said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@watchawatch In the beginning it was. Until they started having problems with fraud. Since then, RoM(and any company can do this) holds diamonds specials on specific items as well as diamond deals.

They've also since tried to combat the inflation, but yes. RoM allowed the buying and selling of diamonds, by the players, in the auction house. The players set the prices through "natural" supply-and-demand.

They still allow gifting, so the system is still almost the same. There's still a system of players buying and selling diamonds through the gifting of specific objects, that is.
Reply

Posted: Mar 21st 2012 3:49PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
My favorite part of the whole selling gold directly to players is the fans who are trying to spin it as "combatting gold farming" and not the actual gold of a massive revenue stream of GW2 lol. No, its not about money, its about the principal of fighting gold farmers! LOL!

Also the justfication that it's not pay to win because "there is no good armor or weapons to buy on the AH" is just laughable.

Blizzard is the devil when they do it with D3, but Arena Net are heroes fighting the good fight against gold sellers! lmao!

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW