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Reader Comments (209)

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 9:42PM pokerbuddy25 said

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You know guys ... there are other ways to create desires without "need" (an extreme from of desire):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/

click on watch full program online

and yes there are other ways of creating "desire" (demand: basically in a demand/supply logic) than creating a "need"

come on now, even for the products you guys buy IRL; do you guys really "need them?;" they are mostly manufactured desires (though personally I like my shinies IRL :] )

Anet just has to be creative and like Yoh said produce things that people really want; they do not necessarily have to be "gamebreaking," "p2w" (in this definition, skilled game play advantage), or "forced need"

yet both the author of the article (though a bit biased; though name any living human being that is not completely biased) and Yoh are correct in the logic that you cannot really jump to any conclusion (which is going to be a prediction until the game releases and the economics are "stabilized") until more detailed is given

and there does seem to be a bit of morality debates going on here (morality being defined as here as a sense of "injustice" done because the outcome is not what one expects/wishes/wants/etc.)

though it also seems that, indeed, Anet is delving into "uncharted territory" and there is a possibility of things [economy, gameplay, what constitutes "fairness" (basically a morality argument based on the "who deserves what concept")] not going right; however a possibility does NOT Guarantee an "an epic failure;" the only fear (small) is that Anet/NCsoft (whoever has more power in the higher marketing decision making at the time of implementation - I have hoped NCsoft has at least learned from their and others' past mistakes) will be "lazy" and go for the "quick fix approach" of selling skilled gameplay advantage; that that seems unlikely as that is the equivalent of shooting one in the foot (gamestop deux ex controversy anyone?)

really guys, Anet is a corporation/business/made of people too; they cannot run without no profit at all; at least they are trying to come to a mutual benefit for both parities (the consumer and manufacturer (developer)/retailer (publisher - NCSoft)) with as much "transparency" (not satirical quoting) as possible

this may be TL;DR but there are some good points in there (I promise - unless you dissect segments and place them out of context)

Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 9:44PM pokerbuddy25 said

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@pokerbuddy25 dammit... I hate no editing meant in the middle name any living human being that is not completely UNbiased (yes I hate double negatives also)
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 10:38PM pokerbuddy25 said

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@pokerbuddy25 dammit ... also forgot to say that this fear of "skipping grind" through "cash shop items" will only be supported if there is a "forced" "needed" grind

I could name many officially stated examples but I will name one in particular that is very close to this issue:

gear/weapons grind... since like many have said... there is a "horizontal gear progression" and that there will be BOTH side kicked up AND down systems and "transmutation stones," there is no real incentive to grind since the "power" is only through the specific skins you would want for your max weapon/armor

though, that does not mean some will not grind at all (double negative again)

but many of the other mechanisms revealed will DETER (yet, not completely prevent) a repetitive, teeth-pulling, "grind-type" gameplay and maybe even the act of "grinding" in gw2 (if even present enough) will be more of a fun game (which I would assume is more solo oriented - though even the aspect of non-forced "grouping" kind of supports that)

Anet does understand human cognition and of course marketing/selling tactics, but they seem to "respect" the gaming community enough; and if there is not a true kind of "respect," at least the financial and public relations horror stories of gamestop controversies, f2p conversions, f2p abuse and controversies, even sub with cash shop controversies (EVE, WoW, perfectworld (LOL), etc.) should HOPEFULLY keep them fairly regulated in "abuse;" plus the gaming community of gw2 should hopefully do the same

well... I lied... i actually said more than one thing XD
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:05PM pokerbuddy25 said

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@pokerbuddy25 jeremys also made a valid point in first acquiring the capital via credit card fraud or "investment;" hopefully Anet and Ncsoft have (or will have) precautions and preventative measures to detect this like IRL credit card companies (detecting overseas transactions, a large deposit/use, etc.) and "healing measures" like precise and instant rollovers; I do not think these companies will let things like this slide easily or have not thought about it because they (like you and I) would definitely not want a "runaway economy" (abet a digital fictitious one) as that would affect gameplay and indirectly their OWN income; yet the prevention and "healing methods" would have to be a dynamic system because like IRL you cannot "vaccinate" against fraud forever
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Posted: Mar 22nd 2012 11:26PM jeremys said

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I have no idea(?) I don't know anything about the leak or what Rubi did. I don't know anymore today than I did when I wrote this.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2012 9:24AM (Unverified) said

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I'll address this in order. The answer to the first question is very simple. If I really like most things about a game... I will play it. Other parts I may not like, and like any human I'll try to avoid doing those things. I realize it's perfectly understandable and ok for some people to enjoy foraging and crafting. Those aren't activities I find particularly rewarding. I like raiding and dungeons, I also buy games if I enjoy the story. Some people like to explore, others really love lore and will go as far as trying to translate the game language(s), still others like pvp.
I don't see how else this can be explained.
The second statement stands on it's own. When you buy a car/house/computer/entertainment system, if you don't like some things, and you're able to do something about them you might. I don't see how this is an unreasonable concept. Often people buy things that aren't exactly what they want, but they customize them or try to make them more useful/desirable to them and live with the parts they can't change. It's perfectly human.
I don't like the engineer, I will bypass the engineer and play another class. You can play it, but I won't.
I don't like foraging. If I can, I will bypass foraging, even if it means spending real money so I can get equipment I really want.
The point is that Arenanet/NCsoft, like many companies have realized, like prohibition, you can't make something illegal and expect to have any reasonable control over it. If there is a market for something, people will find a way to pay for it regardless. Your best hope it to enable that activity in a way that will be most beneficial to everyone. That's what the blog post is about. By enabling real money trading and regulating it, they can direct the flow of that cash to the devs and not to some random farmer ruining the game. Additionally, this provides a way to get the stuff you want in two ways, real money or real time. Which casuals like me appreciate. I have quit many games because the time vs reward started to get out of whack and in my life I'm often too busy to devote more than 3-4 hours a week. By allowing people like me to buy their way through some content, it helps people with the time to forage by creating increased economic demand for the items they farm, pays the devs so they keep developing, most importantly, keeps players playing. MMOs die when players leave and finally by paying periodically good folks like you don't have to if you don't want to. This is how it will be possible for a huge, dynamic game like GW2 to afford to go without a monthly subscription.
There will still be things you can't buy with money or gold. Like bind on pick up items, levels, completing missions, etc. All the core goals to the game system which is why they can't be paid for. So it worries me that people are getting all torn up in knots about this when there are a number of respectable gaming companies that have pulled it off with flying colors. With all the innovation we see from Arenanet I have no doubt they'll be able to make this model work.

Posted: Mar 23rd 2012 4:28PM JadoCast said

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I do respect your opinion, the way I read your post, it seemed like this one article had made up your mind. I was worried too until I read the Blog on Guild Wars 2's site, and I felt like they are keeping with their pledge there would be no "pay to win." The biggest issue I see, not everyone agrees on what defines, "pay to win." It's just my opinion, but convenience items and vanity items do not qualify as pay to win. That's all they are offering according to the Blog. So your post still puzzles me. That's all.
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Posted: Mar 26th 2012 7:46AM (Unverified) said

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there is no debate, the things in the shop are unnecessary and (my personal favorite example) buying an experience potion does you absolutely no good in a game where pve pvp zones reduce your skill to the zone you are in, gear has almost no enhancements on it, and skills are learned through using a weapon enough times to skill up in every 1-5 slot or by running around adventuring (there are no trainers). These people need to stop whining all the time.

Posted: Mar 27th 2012 12:52AM jazzbrownie said

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Putting so much weight into Frogster's troubles while choosing to neglect the success of PLEX in Eve makes this article just feel inflammatory.

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