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Reader Comments (132)

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:59PM jslim419 said

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i've played the TERA beta, and i just had an old feeling that at anytime an white pimple faced teenage boy npc would pop out of nowhere and yell "OMG GUISE IT'S SUPER KAWAII DESU!!!" while dressed like sailor moon.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:33PM Borick said

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@jslim419 TERA has so many horrible things about it. I want to flame away at almost every little thing I see.

...but I can't get over the combat. I would never have thought a system that self-roots you would have been playable, but this /works/ for me, and it seems to be a recurring thread among those who play the game.

And since this thread is about WoW, I think that the only thing that might save them at this point would be to quickly start trying to implement TERA-like combat into their model. They already have ten times the polish (And many of the original ideas) that TERA has in every other aspect of play, but I am sick of waiting for WoW to give me a fixed reticle (And yes, I've yammered for a fixed reticle in WoW since before it launched).

You could say it's too much work to retrofit such a system to an old game, but they're already gutting the talent system, so I'd offer that they ought to just go whole hog and lift Tera-like combat for their next expansion. It's not like TERA didn't lift that tree in their newbie zone straight out of the forest below Dalaran.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:20PM fallwind said

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mmmmm..... nooo.

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:21PM Kerbion said

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Anyone want to send me a scroll?

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:38PM saintstryfe said

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@Kerbion Happily. Send me a message and I'll be glad to send you one. :-)
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:59PM Kerbion said

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@saintstryfe

how can i send you a message?
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:24PM (Unverified) said

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If only that scroll rolled back the servers to Vanilla, BC, or Wrath..............

Preferably BC. The Burning Crusade was amazing. The story was immersive, PVP only had slight imbalances in Warlocks and Sub Rogues, you didn't need to spend a week farming gear to not get blown to hell as a casual PVP'er and the raiding had no button to push to make it difficult. It was all difficult before it was nerfed and the Heroics were freaking Heroic. 10 mans were 10 mans, 25 mans were 25 mans! Gear was alot more exciting, too, with awesome crafted sets and school-specific gear that would alter rotations or specs!

The biggest thing I remember was how difficult pre-nerf Mag, Gruul, Kara, ZA, Kael, and Vashj all were.

Those were epic fights.

Then the epic usages of "lag" when wiping on Archimonde over and over...........it sucked but was fun.........because the fights were fun and weren't based on overly ridiculous rotations but on being able to do your job (core tossing, using your weapons on Kael).........

Oh well, it is what it is now, and no amount of freebees will bring me back unless they actually decide to rekindle some of what made BC arguably the best MMORPG ever.

WoW isn't even a RPG anymore. It's more of an MMOWTF........

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:44PM hami83 said

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@(Unverified) Burning Crusade sucked.

Whatever good was in that xpac was ruined by their still archaic rep grinding for dungeon entry, stupid long and annoying raid attunements, and the xpac that absolutely ruined PvP in every form with Arenas and the whole "flavour of the month" class boosts.

The tier sets got more and more ridiculous and non-WoW looking.

I'm not saying there wasn't any good things in BC, there were, but overall it sucked because the bad far outweighed the good.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:50PM (Unverified) said

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@hami83

Archaic rep grinding is part of playing an RPG.

Actually being expected to play a game to advance the storyline and your character are not mutually exclusive with a game being fun.

Instant gratification is a plight on society.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:04PM hami83 said

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@(Unverified) There's a fine line between a grind that's fun and a grind that's just tedious and not fun to play.

BC clearly was drunk when it walked that line.
Most MMOs rarely get that line right.
Doesn't help that MMOs for the most part have a pretty sleep inducing combat function that most grinding isn't fun anyways. lol

This isn't about instant gratification, this is about Blizzard making stupid design choices.

OH and BC was the peak of the "lawl run this dungeon 100 times to not see that piece of random gear you really want"
Grinding is fine, but grinding that gets you nothing even over time is just dumb.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:14PM (Unverified) said

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@hami83
If vanilla did it wrong, why did it end with 8.5 million subscribers? If BC did it wrong, why did it add 3 million to that to end with 11.5 million? If Wrath did it right, why did it add no new subscribers until its release in China, a region derisively critized often in the west for liking the "Asian grindfest" and then quickly rejected Wrath? If Cataclysm was so good, why did it lose 2 million subscribers immediately following it's release and when it was releasing new content (well, some new content)?

Sorry, but the game grew by leaps and bounds when story mattered. It stagnated and declined once it tried to appeal to the masses.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:27PM (Unverified) said

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@hami83

Well to me it was a blast. All MMO's make you run the same thing over and over if you want that piece of gear.

The rewards in BC crafting-wise or rep-wise, however, were worth it in the end.

Now you craft to make entry-level gear and/or farm rep simply to get ancillary stuff......It's not really comparable because I think we were two different types of players.

I was a raider and busted my ass to get geared for Karazhan to get into the 25 mans.

The grinds were long, but rewarding.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:29PM hami83 said

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@(Unverified) My opinion is my own. I'm not saying BC sucked as fact, I'm saying it sucked as my opinion.

I'm not denying the financial success that WoW had, and still has, but my opinion still stands that BC was a horrible expansion, and I politely disagree with you.

And I didn't say the next xpacs were better. I don't know why you're bringing that up, that wasn't even in the discussion.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:32PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

Well said. I agree completely. WoW suffers from no longer being story driven and more importantly from crossing over to an increasingly fickle fan base while many of the vanilla and BC hardcores have bailed on the game..........
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Posted: Mar 7th 2012 10:47AM mcliudlin said

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I don't understand this "hardcore" mentality that wow players have. Anyone that played just about ANY mmo before wow would know that even vanilla and BC were extremely casual by comparison. Wow's model was to basically take the mmo genre and dumb it down for anyone and their grandmother (literally) to be able to play. Why do people rag on them for continuing with that model?
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Posted: Mar 7th 2012 11:10AM (Unverified) said

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@mcliudlin

Because there's dumb and stupid. BC might have been dumbed down slightly, but Wrath bordered on Stupid in how easily characters were progressed.

After Ulduar and the advent of the "heroic or normal modes" it started creeping into stupid.

Cataclysm hit full-on stupid by basically killing 25 man raids.

But really the stupidity happened with the great stat merge of 2.4 and when they nerfed the living crap out of all the incredible raid content in BC that was inately hard.

I may be old-fashioned, but bosses should be difficult. Normal modes aren't and now they have "sub-normal mode" with this new LFR thing..........

Story lines lose their meaning and immersion disappears when the boss of the game is only hard if you actively flip a switch to make him so.

Very few people had Kil'jaeden down when 2.4 hit. Same with Naxx 1.0 in vanilla. Nearly nobody got KT down there, either.

The point is though that they both were ultimate bad-guys. They felt epic because they were hard. Adding switches to make stuff hard if you are truly trying to create an RPG destroys the RP elements because there's no immersion. There's only gear.

If 5 mans were epic, as well, like Scholo, Strat, and BC heroics were and they offered strong gear (which they did in BC via Badges of Justice) then even those who don't want to raid could.

Nobody cares about their dev cycles and their concern about how many people are spending time in the instances they spend the most dev time with. I'm pretty sure almost everybody I used to play WoW with was more disheartened by the fact that the entire game is instantly gratifying loot farming and there's little reward to those who remember downing pre-nerf Gruul and when classes had certain niches and synergies (which again fosters deeper immersion).
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Posted: Mar 7th 2012 3:06PM (Unverified) said

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@mcliudlin
You're right, vanilla and BC were casual compared to the MMO market. But they wanted to go after no the casual MMO players, but the casual gamers who were off playing Facebook games like Farmville and Angry Birds. Their partnership with Facebook on Real ID was even intended to help boost this segment.

The problem is, the moment they started trying to cater to this group, the game totally stagnated, and not just growth wise. They never got a single increase in subscribtions after they started except for a temporary bump in China after the August 2010 release there of Wrath, and that's not even "casual territory".

And what's so ironic, is now even those Farmville/Angry Bird casuals they went after are now bored. LFR allowed pugs to complete the tank and spank version of the Deathwing raid in the first week it was out. Now they have almost everyone who wanted to see the raid now has, and there is nothing to do till MoP comes out. So Blizzard has painted themselves into a corner.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:25PM (Unverified) said

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The more news that comes from Blizzard, the worse things sound. And the freebies for the most part exacerbate the problem.

One of the main issues that has plagued WoW as of the past 3-4 years is just how easy it is to level and how little players know their class. Allowing a player to immediately jump any character to 80 just does not help. Not to mention this gives the appearance even Blizzard thinks their leveling zones and process is irrelevant.

Blizz, you really want players to return? Then put the Warcraft back into the World of Warcraft. When you say you will do something, DO IT. I can not speak for everyone, but the many people I know who have left, including myself, will not be enticed back by getting a player to 80. That is the opposite of what we want, we want a good immersive leveling experience that makes us feel a part of the story.

What was Kul Tiras? Did putting in ZA just because people want to get the bear mount really replace it in your opinions Blizz? Where was Danath confronting Sylvanas over what she did to his nephew? Did taking a resolved storyline from vanilla and making the good guys turn bad and reopening ZG really take it's place? Would you also mind explaining HOW Ozumat kidnapping Neptulon resolved that plot point to the extent that an entire raid and it's associated 5 person dungeons could be canceled?

In the remote chance anyone on Vivendi's Board of Directors may be reading this, GET RID OF BOBBY KOTICK. As I said earlier in this post, I can not speak for each and every subscriber that has left, but many of us want to go back. But you need to pay attention to what has happened. Since the merger where you all placed this man as CEO, WoW has lost net subscriptions and gone away from it's core customer. This has resulted not only in lost subs, but outside merchandise being severely hurt as well. Starcraft 2 has it's share of issues with it's fan base over the map store mess which is identical to what Kotick did with Activision games. Diablo 3 which so many were looking forward to has also seen a lot of controversy also because of ideas straight from "Kotick's Manual on How to Destroy Great Companies and Drive Away Gamers".

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:25PM Oskiee said

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Between the hype of gw2 and the who knows how many people quit to play tor, I'm not surprised by this.

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 4:26PM foomchee said

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Good idea but... no thanks.

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