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Reader Comments (18)

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 3:26PM Ceridith said

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The developers need to look at how SWG dealt with housing. When you walked into a house, you were seamlessly transported onto a separate instance server that dealt specifically with the internal housing areas.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 3:30PM (Unverified) said

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man this game seems like its gonna have a lot of cool features. i just hope they dont skip out on the combat and make it some crappy tab target system.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 3:34PM Pilgrim said

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I am fine with a "menu" and pretend to be in a house (ship spinning in eve anyone?) never had problems there and it was fun to talk to people in the stations, sort stuff out and move out again to hunt down monsters or players etc.

What I like of this that you can, if it is possible setup a netwok of watchtowers and use it as an early warning system to prevent your town to be attacked. iirc they are planning 1 server for all players so yeah, bring in the different tz's and bring in politics again. On paper this is going to be pretty epic and will be good as a real sandbox game in a fantasy setting.

I just hope they will pick a good solid engine that will be able to support massive battles.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 4:19PM (Unverified) said

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eh, sounds like a pvp hell, where people destroy your stuff just because they can.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 4:21PM Pilgrim said

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@(Unverified) welcome to a real sandbox MMO!
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 5:11PM Lenn said

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@Pilgrim Welcome to yet another niche sandbox game that will scare away potential players!
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 6:05PM Space Cobra said

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@Pilgrim

That's not my definition of a "real" sandbox.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 6:15PM johnnliu said

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@Pilgrim

Pathfinder, and D&D are awesome because as a party you cooperate. The sandbox and freedom in these RPG is in the heroic actions, choices and decisions that you can imagine.

It has nothing to do with some other jerks (who weren't in your campaign to begin with), coming along to your table and messing things up.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 6:41PM Space Cobra said

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@johnnliu

Hey, that reminds me of a story...

*-* STORY-TIME *-*

So, way back when, my school started after-school electives and there was a whole list of things to choose, one of them was thins new thing called, "Dungeons and Dragons" and that sounded like fun.

So, I signed up and bought the box set. I even fiddled with a character but had to re-fiddle with it (I wanted a guy that was a Jedi with a light saber; Star Wars was still hot!). So, off I go into the adventure, the teacher was the DM. There were people who've played the game before I did as well as those new like me. In particular, there was this one group of youngsters (okay, I was a youngster, too, but they knew each other). They had nicely equipped characters and deigned they would guide/help us on the adventure, but their attitude on treating us was not that great. I sensed something wrong and not wanting to suffer with them, I whispered an aside to the teacher that I'd be silently sneaking out of the party (It was easy because they were mostly wrapped up in their in-jokes and each other).

I sat by as time passed and they came upon a grove, they then got this gleam in their eyes and the leader then asked, "Are we ready? One....Two...Three!" On three, they each chose a hapless target, one of the newbie level one adventures and gleefully hacked at them. A few eventually fought back but to no avail.

It was a very juvenile thing to do that really had no value beyond, "getting their jollies" out of it and the "Alignment" they held was just as flimsy an excuse. I mean, you had new players into the game and that was a pretty easy way to kill any one's interest in the hobby and expanding your playerbase.

I wasn't bitter; I got away cleanly (even though they tried to track me, but I left long before that) and it was easy to see, yes, especially OOCly, what was their plan.

IMO, a "sandbox" needs to be more fair for those who want to build sandcastles and those who want to kick them over (or kick sand in your face).

So you see, my moral is that even in real life (table top) there are douche bags that gleefully want to wreck your life for no reason. They've been around long before the internet and are nothing new and perhaps the anonymous tag helps those who are older from maturing and staying in that "I am blameless; blame my alignment" state.

I say this willing to give games like this one and ArcheAge a try; I understand the risks of PvP and know them, but really, even the American Indians did not immediately gank Christopher Columbus in the real world as he left his boat and landed in America.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 5:01PM (Unverified) said

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I'm really not getting the PvP centric focus of this game. It's got nothing to do with why almost anyone plays the Pathfinder tabletop game, which is inherently a game about players cooperating against enemies and the environment, run by the DM, who is adversary, judge and referee. The 'sandbox' factor of a tabletop game is between you and your DM, not between you and the table next to you who might decide to come over and ambush you while you're in the heat of your own adventure.

I know there's a (small) market for people who want a PvP sandbox fantasy MMO, and I want those people to have a game they really enjoy just like I want games that I enjoy, but Pathfinder just seems to be an odd vehicle for it.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 6:13PM Space Cobra said

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@(Unverified)

It's a good point you bring up; I think they are trying to move the "adversary' onto "other players" instead of a GM in this MMO. It seems they are missing the "spirit" of some of the rules; even old 1st Edition DnD, when you got up in Levels and started your own castle was more similar to this kind of system of managing your castle and resources and while you did dealt with a GM, some creativeness would come in so it would be "player vs. player castle sieges" moderated by a GM.

I keep seeing a bit of blind-siding in this regard when moving PnP games over into the MMO realm (even Garriot was guilty of this) in that they want an "open world" and hope the players govern themselves.

But that is where I am also seeing the other part of the philosophy crash into this: Players helping players. Seems like they are using the "join a big guild" thing to handle that. We've already seen such things done in the past to varying degrees of success/failure. I also sense, unless they outright stated, that this won't be for the "casual player" (paraphrase, "We are limiting the amount of players on our servers after launch."). So, I see both ends here but they may rely on pvp for most of the daily struggle/content and not so muchj on in-game GMs.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 8:23PM oxlar said

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EQ2 = Best housing ever.

Follow this model, especially for decorating and modifications.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 11:16PM Maseno said

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So If I understand this correctly, player structures will be in the game, but you won't be able to actually go into them? That sucks.

Posted: Mar 2nd 2012 1:50AM Halfcentaur said

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If this game ends up with the same gorgeous art quality as their RPG art, with decent graphics and animations and controls, this will be amazing.

Posted: Mar 2nd 2012 8:09AM Xennkari said

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They are focusing on the PvP aspects of the game in many of the dev blogs that we have been seeing but they have also spoken of the many PvE factors that they would like to bring to the game. What you see as a "PvP focus" is actually (imo) a focus on giving the players as many options as possible and let's face it, adventure comes from conflict. The more immersive you can make the conflict, the more exciting the game will be. After all, what game does everyone tell stories about? EVE. And those stories take place in areas where the only laws are those placed, and enforced, by the players themselves.

What you are overlooking is that they intend to give us the tools to enforce the laws we place. Watchtowers, Keeps, Settlements. Of course, once those are placed the area will become more and more "civilized" and you won't be able to find the treasure that you used to find there as more people will be in that area. Thereby giving us a reason to venture beyond the protection of our towers, keeps, & settlements and into the areas where we may encounter a hideout populated by a bandit gang(PC's) or a ruins populated by a band of ogres (NPC's). But I can also see a bandit gang building a road through an area in order to set up a hideout and ambush prosperous targets. This would provide a fast route of travel for players but also provide a "hunting ground" for the group. Of course if they attack every single traveller and caravan that uses the road they will soon see no traffic and with the road being destructable someone could even destroy the road outside of their detection range in order to help protect other players.

Yes, I am looking forward to this game more and more with every dev blog that is published. I can't wait to create my first monk, alchemist, or even archeologist bard. (I hope they let us create archetypes!) I have friends who have also gotten their interest spiked by this game. And that is what the game is about, getting together with friends to have an exciting time playing together and creating stories that you will share with your old and new friends. I, for one, am looking forward to creating those stories!

Posted: Mar 2nd 2012 9:05AM Ceridith said

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@Xennkari
Unless there are sufficient "safe zones" and repercussions for senselessly murdering other players, no amount of PvE will save this game from the niche hell that every other FFA PvP MMO ends up in.

Sure the concept of FFA PvP seems interesting, but the reality is much different. You will always eventually encounter players whose prime motivation is to beat down every other player within their reach. These PvP anarchists will do everything within their power to abuse the game system to suit their goal, and the only way to sufficiently keep them in check is to rig the game system against them, if not outright forbidding FFA-PvP in the first place.
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Posted: Mar 2nd 2012 9:29AM Space Cobra said

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@Ceridith

And to add to your response, there are established guilds that tend to do this in many MMOs that they play; It's their "thing". So it ain't small groups, it's around hundreds of players that make it "their niche" and drive off the thousands.

From my very light reading, this seems to be the Dev's goal. Maybe they do not realize it, but they are inadvertently helping nurture this niche but maybe they do realize it, since they only want so many players during launch.

More power to them if they can keep it up and make some profit from it, but the road doesn't look good. Really, we'll just have to see how the game plays. Ultimately, players will vote to play or not and we'll either have an another example of a PvP FFA that has failed or one that wil point the way on "how to do it".
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Posted: Mar 2nd 2012 1:00PM Ninevah said

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D'ancy worked at CCP for 3 years, so he saw the potential of a game like EVE. He's basically taking the design of EVE and trying to apply it to a fantasy MMO. He's attracted to Pathfinder because it's been gaining market share against 4th edition D&D (owned by WotC) AND because, allegedly, without D'ancy there could be no Pathfinder RPG. (he allegedly was the architect of the Open Game License that was created when WotC bought and published 3rd edition D&D) I think such a "sandbox" model can work for a fantasy MMO, but I agree with the other posters that Pathfinder seems an odd IP for such an MMO.

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