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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 1:19AM Utakata said

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- Faster action based combat with more fluidity.

- Have an energy based system that is generated by attacking the target. (I thought this was a really wonderful aspect of Champions Online.)

- Along with enhancements that are "like the runes from Diablo 3", don't have them deminish in leveling.

- More dynamic crafting.

- Way better graphics engine.

- More frilly dresses options on the character creator....which can also be worn by the boys.

- Which brings me to more gender nuetral costume options.

- And have "Huge" females, because females can be huge.

- As well as have a short and stubby option for both sexes. I call it "Gnome."

Yes, I know. This is is oddly starting to sound like a suggestions list as opposed to imagine what CoH2 would be like. Well let's just imagine I am the chief developer for CoH2...and this is the stuff I would put in off the top of my head.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 1:31AM Daemodand said

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The bad news is CoH2 is never going to happen. I love CoH, but CoH is an IP on the decline, not on the rise. The good news is the next generation MMO Paragon Studios is making will most likely be extremely awesome, because PS's devs are some of the best in the industry. If PS is making a game, I'm interested! Just don't expect CoH2, because it's not.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 4:01AM Wic said

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CoH2 will happen and I will pre-order the collectors edition as soon as it does infact I may pre-order 3 for my whole family.

Paragon studios has one title atm COX these guys need to keep their jobs how do they do that? By releasing a new game with fresh income but just like EQ and EQ2 have both games running.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 5:06AM Byph said

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Great topic. The biggest structural thing I'd change is the Hero vs. Villain system. Two faction systems are an overused design. Instead, make it an n-faction system where characters can join NPC factions, or player made factions. Make aggro tables based on factions, and give out costume rewards based on factions. For example, I've always wanted to make a Carne-themed character and join the Carnes.. make a fire themed character and join the Hellions.

Then put a system in place where a faction's influence over the region of the city (and the NPC population therein) can be dynamic and based on player actions. This makes the persistent world a little more malleable and interesting.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 6:14AM SiML said

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City of Heroes II will-never-happen.
Champions Online will grow to become everything CoH couldn't do.

The best City of Heroes can do is do an extensive engine re-write to get rid of the mitten-hands and allow better events and powers-gfx.
The best they can do is do what they did with DA and revamp each zone one-by-one to be more visually stunning, be a better design (god i can't believe Steel Canyon still hasn't had it's big-city make-over and be got away from that terribly dated grid and block design) and have better functionality for zone events.
I also don't know why they haven't put a block power in for each powerset, it wouldn't be hard to do.

City of Heroes is simply too big and unwieldy after 7 years to think about a sequel, and I say that with reverse psychology in mind as I'd love them to prove me wrong.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 7:40PM StClair said

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@SiML
Yep, CO is gonna be the CoH-killer. Heard it back in '08. Watched it stumble, then go F2p. But I'm sure, like the South, it will rise again. Aaaaany day now. Really.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 6:57AM Meagen said

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CoH 2 will not happen, and even if it does, it will not be everything you love about CoH and with all the thigns you dislike fixed. It will be far too different, with many changes made for reasons you can't fathom. It will abandon many of the things you feel made CoH great and unique and still not have that one thing you really, *really* wanted. Also, there will not be nearly as much content, the controls will be weird and alien, the graphics will look unfamiliar, and you won't be able to re-create some of your favourite characters ideally.

It will still be a great game once you get past that, but you will only be able to enjoy it if you let go of the old one.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 8:29AM (Unverified) said

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People seem to be forgetting that Jack Emmert originally designed CoH without archetypes/classes, but quickly found in beta that testers quickly zeroed in on 'best builds' and the game ended up with little variety.

That is, I think, because MMO designers have a very linear application of what it means to succeed in their games - it's always, always about the 'dee pee ess'.

What will drive variety in player choices is a NEED for variety.

Think about it - if some bosses are UNDEFEATABLE by the 'application' of dps....they MUST be 'flown over' or snuck-past or healed-through...then flying, sneaking, and healing then have value in achieving success. Now there are two problems with this: as long as bosses are static and predictable* then heroes will just plan for it: "oh, boss ABC has infinite hit points, so the only heroes we want on this are sneaky ones".
*and THIS is a function of the unique nature of MMOs, wherein events which are 'unique' in the real world (and even in comics) - defeating a bad guy - are repeated ad nauseum.

The key is to
a) have situations in instances (or wherever you are expected not to solo) that REQUIRE multiple other talents to succeed. This will require groups to be built seeking variety in player talents, and
b) have broad VARIETY in the bosses/events within instances randomly determined so that the experience isn't so predictable in every run.

Yes, that's a buttload of programming. But in 2012, building an instanced adventure with a few mobs, some wandering pats, and a boss or 4 is LAZY. We should have long since evolved past that design.

You want to have a classless system that doesn't devolve into the simplest tank-heal-dps archetypes? Get away from the monolithic, linear race-to-apply-more-damage-to-the-boss-than-he-applies-to-your-tank-over-what-your-healer-can-mitigate model we've had for 10+ years, and you just might do it.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 12:43PM Meagen said

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@(Unverified) Here's the thing, through a combination of luck and incompetence (massive, massive amounts of both) on the part of the original devteam, CoH has already gotten away from that model. In the GW2 development blog, in the article on healing and death, you can read about how they're working from a much broader "control/buff/damage" trinity, and the way it's described is pretty much how CoH already works.

Basically, in the tank/heal/dps triangle, the three points are both necessary and insufficient on their own. In the control/buff/damage triangle, the three points are sufficient and complimenting. You can have classes that can do various amounts of each, and more of any one thing is always better.

And the result? Well, if you're teaming up in CoH, more people is always better. "We need heals and a tank!" is a newbie mindset that people quickly grow out of. In absolute terms, some powersets are better than others, but since every combination improves the group's overall effectiveness, nobody will hold out for a Fire/Rad Corrupter when there's a perfectly fine FF/Energy Defender right there. No class can be actively *deterimental* to the group's success to the extent that a DPS taking up the spot of the Tank in another game would be.

You don't have to force variety on your players! Most of them already like different things. Just make sure they can do the things they likein a group and variety will happen.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 9:25AM Yellowdancer said

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I would like to know what graphics engine they will use if this ever comes to light.

I like what DCUO does with the Unreal Engine and physics system.

Classes in Super Hero comics need to be refined. It can't be open system like CO but needs to have more fluidity than COH and DCUO. Though COH and DCUO can(has) overcome this barrier by adding lots of powers over time.

I love the color system of DCUO. I'd like to see that repeated.

Action combat is a must. Something like GW2 and DCUO combined.

I doubt they can pull off what PS2 is doing with environments and their open world but if they could, the dream would be set.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 7:31PM StClair said

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@Yellowdancer
"I love the color system of DCUO. I'd like to see that repeated."

You mean the system where you can ONLY have three colors for your character's entire costume? (Often requiring one of them, for practicality and contrast, to be either black or white?)

I'll stick with CoH's system, thanks, where (in theory, not that you'd ever do this) every single costume piece can be its own unique color(s).
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 12:04PM Gryphmon said

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Paragon Studios has been recruting lately for developers and staff to work on a "Next-gen" MMO, so certainly something is going on.

Posted: Mar 1st 2012 12:38PM Utakata said

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@Gryphmon

Source?
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 5:07PM Gryphmon said

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@Utakata

Their jobs webpage?

http://www.paragonstudios.com/careers/
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 4:01PM (Unverified) said

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Except I'm not sure you're seeing my point.

I'm not talking about the 'trinity' - I'm talking about the paradigm of "the only way to win an instance is to kill the boss"...and "to get to the boss the only way is to kill all the guys in front of him/her".

Because as long as the goal is killing, whatever class kills best (alone or in concert) is the one everyone's going to play. Whatever skills best support that goal will be the favored skills. In fact, the 'trinity' only exists because that's the only model out there.

Imagine an instance in which not a single mob dies - or even, what if the instance run was a fail if ANY mob dies?

Imagine:
- an instance with an unkillable boss, requiring people to kite him back and forth around a room, grabbing and trading and dropping aggro before he reaches anyone, he has a one-shot kill on anyone he gets close to.
- an instance event in which waves of trivial but innumerable enemy mobs are swarming toward the perimeter, and your job is to keep the guards alive at all costs?
- an instance in which every mob flees at top speed when they've taken any damage, calling for help? Cause any damage to anyone, and you will be quickly overwhelmed.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 4:26PM Meagen said

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@(Unverified) I see your point, I just think you're wrong.

"Because as long as the goal is killing, whatever class kills best (alone or in concert) is the one everyone's going to play. Whatever skills best support that goal will be the favored skills." - wrong, in CoH the goal is to kill mobs, but there isn't a single build that's 'best' at it. There are some that are really good at one thing, but the best at killing large crowds is different from the best at soloing single targets. And any combo of 8 well-played characters can completely mow through content.

"In fact, the 'trinity' only exists because that's the only model out there." - the only one that people keep copying maybe, but not nearly the only thing that can be done.

All your ideas are basically just ways of distracting the dps. Also, some of them have already been done in Incarnate Trials. Hardly need an entirely new game for that.
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Posted: Mar 1st 2012 3:29PM lmollea said

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Must have for COH2:
- scalable missions (like now)
- more trials/raids throughout the leveling
- some open world pve (events)
- meaningful pvp (i.e. rewards and some persistence)
- break free of the city environment: as in alien worlds?
- max level content from the start (faction wars? mixed pve/pvp galactic/interdimensional conflict?)
- keep the same amount of theorycrafting and build planning (how I love that)
- keep the same variability in playable "classes" (or whatever) that can let different team pass the same challenges without requiring specific ATs/classes/...

Posted: Mar 2nd 2012 5:27PM deadborder said

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...Champions Online certainly let you have superheroic adventures in a variety of settings; there's no reason CoH2 couldn't take that lead...

Yeah, although its fair to say that the Zones that weren't MilCit or Vibora Bay sucked. So a little of a double-edged sword there.

Posted: Mar 6th 2012 5:48PM DancingCow said

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CoH is still my favourite MMO and the one I've played the longest - even though I haven't played it for ages.

Definitely some good lessons to be learned from all the superhero games.

I agree with dumping archetypes and letting players switch roles. Let players define themselves by a powerset (or two) and toggle between roles.

One thing I hated about CoH was powersets with buffs you had to re-apply every 2-4 minutes (eg. bubbles). Hated being a buff-bot.

I liked blocking in CO but maybe they could take that even further - have different sustained abilities you can use to counter various effects. Eg. if a Tsoo Sorcerer popped in with a hurricane on one team member could counter the repel with an anchor they sustain until their team-mates kill the sorc or he teleports away.

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