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Reader Comments (23)

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:06PM Unshra said

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Read the title and instantly "THROW MORE DOTS... MORE DOTS" popped in my head, then I started to read and clicked the jump and saw the picture and busted out laughing. ;-p

The last point is something I have seen often and is why leaders need to learn to step away and reassess what's going on, how they are handling it and why they are handling the situation they way they are.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:11PM Borick said

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Nice point about yelling being a proper art form. Sometimes - very rarely, but sometimes - you need that "left hand of God" -- the Gunny, the drill instructor, the angry coach to focus disappointment into something that motivates the team.

There's a difference between getting a team worked up toward a goal and self-aggrandizing abuse. If a team is having trouble with focus and everyone has a healthy appetite and respect for the team, then the guy screaming things at you is just a loud point of focus that makes you angry enough to prove him wrong and win the encounter.

But outside of the crazy people who seek that level of challenge and intensity in a video game, I can't see a place for it. I love you. You love me. We're a big happy family.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:20PM (Unverified) said

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While I agree overall, I think there are times some yelling, or rather calling out, has helped.

No, in the majority of guilds it doesn't. But I had the benefit of being in a very good guild on WoW. We even had some server firsts (Wrath Naxx, EoE, Maly). On occasion the RL did indeed have to call people out for stupidity, and it almost always worked as people paid better attention.

Now of course, we were more of a tight knit guild and I can see where that wouldn't work in a more loosely connected guild.

But while yelling and such would not work for most people, neither would the opposite extreme. A RL who would say something like "Oh gee, we wiped again, it's no big deal. It's ok you stood in the poison. Just because you were the MT healer didn't matter, just keep doing what you want" would not advance their guilds progression at all either.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:25PM Deliverator said

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The answer is a monch and a defective one at that. Everyone should take lessons.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:33PM Faction 3 said

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Lit - - Korialstrasz server- WoW

Fits this description like a glove.

"Horses ass" also does.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:46PM SnarlingWolf said

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I hate Raids and I hate guilds, neither of them are fun.

Back in the early days of MMOs I joined guilds in pretty much every MMO I went to over the years. At some point I got really tired of all the different drama that goes with a guild and just stopped joining them, my fun increased dramatically.

I don't want to have forced guild meetings to talk about crap I don't care about. I don't want to be forced to play a certain amount of time. I don't want to have to be relegated to one single role for eternity. I don't want to be given a paint by numbers script for running the same raid 57 times. None of that is fun.

I do like to socialize, group up and just have fun. At the end of the day, it is a game and games should be fun and enjoyable above all else.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:51PM Amlin said

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What can I say, raiding and other high end endgame requires a more organized level of play and caliber demand for the players. Sometimes you gotta take it seriously enough to get stuff done.

Stuff like that though is the reason I don't do high end stuff anymore, it's more work than play for me. I want to play games to just veggie out and not really do anything hard after a day of work.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 3:56PM juanele said

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Thank goodness I never had a guild/raid leader like that. I think I would guild quit faster than you can blink if I had encountered one.

Man, the referees must have loved Bobby Knight.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 4:26PM enamelizer said

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One thing I think works really well is doing a screen capture of the fight, and breaking it down later.

It removes the need to have to both play and analyze at the same time, and you can point out mistakes and improvements after the heat of the moment has passed.

Posted: Feb 24th 2012 12:14AM MaddZ said

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@enamelizer

Unfortunately thats not always possible. If something is going wrong and causing wipes on progression fights then you want the problem fixed NOW, not 2 days from now when someone finally gets to looking at the parses and realizes the dps is splitting damage too much.

KISS for raids imo. Yelling introduces complication, so keep it out of the raid. You can't judge their reaction appropriately, so its best not to use it unless you are trying to cut through some chatter, in which case its just a volume increase instead of actually berating someone.
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Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 5:00PM Rayve said

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Pretty much why I don't even join guilds anymore unless their is some kind of bonus like in WoW and then I just don't use the guild channels anyway. It's just not worth the trouble.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 6:04PM vann said

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Yelling would oh so never fly in my guild. I don't know about others, but I have to imagine it's because the average member in my raid crew is a thirty- to forty-something year old professional. Nobody will countenance such gross disrespect being directed at anybody, let alone themselves.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 10:21PM Deliverator said

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@vann
I wonder if we're in the same guild, lol
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Posted: Feb 24th 2012 6:53AM Ref Minor said

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@vann
That's how I ran my guild, with respect in all directions and collective responsibility for making decisions.
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Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 5:55PM Yog said

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My favorite guild/raid leader back in my WoW playing days was mean in a sort of jovial way. He'd tell you what you did wrong but you never felt singled out or insulted...you laughed more than anything. When he stopped playing WoW our guild just fell apart.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 7:31PM ApathyCurve said

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I've had some good guild leaders, but that the sort of guild leader you describe belongs to the same social strata as mall cops and low-level government workers -- i.e., they're emotionally immature power mongers who will never amount to anything in life. They are bitter about their failures as a person and take it out on those around them. I don't voluntarily spend any time associating with such people.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 8:57PM LucentWolf said

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I used to be the raid leader of a guild in WoW. My guild's been around for a bit now, about 4 years and we've actually only finished 1 raid to the end boss. That was Naxxrammas 10 when it first came out. We went onto Ulduar and about halfway through our Ulduar progression I decided I'd had enough raid leading responsibilities, so I passed them onto another person I believed could handle it. He knew the fights well, and had co-lead with me on some of the tougher fights where we needed to micromanage.

My guild hasn't had a final boss raid kill since. Now don't get me wrong, he knew what he was doing, he could get us through fights. Same goes for all the other raid leads we've had since I passed it on. None of them could get us to down the last boss.

My theory on why this is the case has basically been summed up in this article to the point. The raid leads after me didn't have the right attitude. When we'd wipe you'd hear them sigh, or call out " That's a wipe! " " Wipe it up guys, let's get back in. " and you could hear the frustration and disappointment. Not to mention when they would start pointing fingers, calling people out, arguing with each other over what went wrong.

I believe the reason I got our team to happily and successfully defeat each encounter we came across in Naxx and half through Uld was because I lead with a calm demeanor. If some one messed up, I'd let them know what they did in a -friendly- tone, and then tell them still in a friendly tone what they can do to correct where they went wrong.

On several occasions I've had my GM and fellow Officers ask me to pick up raid leading again, just because I treated every one kindly and fairly and I had a calming attitude.

Posted: Feb 23rd 2012 9:09PM Vazzaroth said

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I cannot fathom why any one wouldn't instantly gquit if they were under that kind of verbal abuse. in fact, I have a hard time understanding why people deal with a lot of the stupid shit I hear about involving guilds.

Posted: Feb 24th 2012 5:35AM drunkingamebar said

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@Vazzaroth I actually find that is the best time to, 1st leave vent, 2nd /gquit, 3rd leave group, and hearth. It's even more satisfying if you are tank, or heals.

Most of my guilds have been with friends who don't take the game THAT serious, and usually only yell when joking around, or drunk. It's usually like "LOL I WALKTED OFF TEH EDGE! SAVE MEEEEE!"

Though I can agree, it is very frustrating playing with a group of brain dead idiots. Best to call it, and log out, just hope that the next group that signs up isn't retarded.
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Posted: Feb 24th 2012 6:02AM cray said

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I think a lot people who lead guilds are under the impression that it's all about telling them where to go and what skill needs to be used at that moment. While this is a big part, the other part of leadership, which gets seriously overlooked is inspiration. Great leaders inspire a team to WANT to play with each other. You gotta let your teammates know they'll doing a good job, even when the task is fairly easy and trivial. A simple "nice move there, bob." will go a long way in showing that you notice their efforts. It's important to point these out when it happens, so everyone gives a virtual pat on the back. Don't confuse this with "good game guys" after everything is done. The latter is just common courtesy.

True inspiration is showing your enthusiasm for playing together regardless if the guild is successful or not. I know some of you are thinking this all corny and pointless, but if you look at sports teams, you can pick out the leaders for not just their stellar ability, but the way they carry themselves and inspire their teammates. They make everyone around them better players. They share tactics, and encourage each other simultaneously.

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