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Reader Comments (87)

Posted: Feb 12th 2012 10:11PM Irem said

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@Amlin
Confirmation bias. I've seen people ignore entire threads full of reasonable discussion and criticism to jump on one pie-in-the-sky comment, and proceed to use it as an example of how "all GW2 fans think the game will be the second coming and can't stand to have anyone point out its flaws!" I dunno, there's also this strange idea that hype itself can kill a game, as though whether or not that hype was deserved doesn't even factor into it. Humans draw bizarre conclusions sometimes.
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Posted: Feb 12th 2012 11:56PM Space Cobra said

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@Irem

Many times, it seems to people like it when they are "pleasantly surprised" and this goes for other things. They will have bought into "hype" of something and will be let down by the product or movie.

The problem as I see it here is, since many people here (and on forums) tend to like this hobby (games/MMOs), they tend to read such things first, either in magazines or, now, on internet sites. So, they can't be "surprised" as much and can critically analyze any snippets that have been released. Sometimes such analysis is right, sometimes it is not. And....contrary to what I said about "surprises", as in "hype letting you down", some of those folks like to "know what to expect". That is, so they can either enjoy such hype or dismiss it.

Again, it is the very rare person that stands in the middle and sees the arguments of both sides and weighs them fairly. Even then, some people may not like the answer and others are content with it.

Being a "game" the judgement will come when it launches and even then, some people will not like the game. I think it is fair that we can expect any game to "do so much". It may not be someone's "cup of tea" and others may drink it by the boatload even when we get our hands on the game.

I am not expecting a "second coming" but I am probably still going to try out the game. I haven't followed it as much as some of you, so maybe I'll be "pleasantly surprised", which would be cool. Really, the only judgement-call I can really make is if I get it into my hands (although the swimming combat video did seem neat to me). I can see at least they are trying something out with their classes and we'll see if that works out for their vision or not.

Gaming can be just like Ice Cream in this: I may prefer Chocolate over Vanilla (and actually prefer Orange Sherbet over Chocolate), but I won't turn down Vanilla Ice Cream if it is offered to me.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 12:09PM Irem said

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@Space Cobra
There's a lot of "I'll be cynical so I won't be disappointed" to it. I just think it's strange that that's the mindset that gets treated as realistic, as though it makes sense to think that the genre will just...never grow successfully at all, ever. That's at least as silly as getting overexcited, especially when it leads people to treat plain old excitement as blind fanboyism, and to give maybe a little too much weight to their own criticisms. For example, I've had the "no endgame" discussion more times than I can count recently, and I regularly run into people who refuse to take the decision making process of the developers into account, and then say that nobody has an answer for their valid criticism. And, well, when you're the type of person who thinks everyone who isn't nodding their heads gravely and saying, "You're right, the lack of progression raiding IS a terrible design flaw!" is blowing smoke up your ass and refusing to debate fairly, then there's not much anyone can say.

Your approach of wanting to try it out before you draw any conclusions is perfectly reasonable, and I wish more people would adopt it. :P But then, as far as I can tell, you're a reasonable person.
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Posted: Feb 12th 2012 10:14PM highstricker said

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Its interesting how all the doom and nay sayers for GW2 don't really have any idea of what they are talking about, and refer to it as the usual mmorpg.

Posted: Feb 12th 2012 10:29PM jakofascalon said

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I think a lot of people are missing it completely. One thing that all the fans and viewers have to understand is this: Not all people are into the same types of gaming.

Where one person loves FPS games while another hates them. Where one person loves MMO PVP, another cringes at the mention of it. The list can go on and on. The same can be said for the Trinity in MMOs. Some people will simply not like not being able to tank or heal, and that's ok.

What I think should stop is all the flame wars that go on because of it. As was suggested in an above post, some of the GW2 fans have become Zealots, defending the game that other people wont like. If other people don't like it... THAT"S OK!!!!!

However, what I don't want is a horde(pun intended) of trolls clogging up the bridge saying things like, "GW2 is stupid and all the fanboyz should die!" or because they've watched one video and only followed a few posts, having done little to no research on the game, they use my personal favorite, "GW2 is gonna be like [insert MMO name here]."

If you don't like it, that's ok. MOVE ALONG!!!!!! Do you have a favorite game? Do you really want us bashing your favorite game? Of course you don't. Bye bye!

If you're a GW2 Zealot, BREATHE!!!! It's gonna be ok! Now, quit Adelberning it and come back to reality! The community doesn't need this!

I am a huge fan of Guild Wars, hence my Massively username. I'm thoroughly excited about the game, it's mechanics, and most importantly, the prospect of being able to share my GW2 experiences with friends and a community of like-minded individuals.

It's really good to see a dev team passionate about the game their making. Not so say, ArenaNet is the only dev team passionate about what they do, because that's just naive. I'm just glad their as excited as the rest of us!

Posted: Feb 13th 2012 2:07PM JVJunior said

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@(Unverified)

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess you're referring to all the criticism SWTOR received. Shall we take a look at what was said about that particular game?;

Same combat as all MMORPG's of last decade or so (with some class abilities seemingly copy/pasted from WoW).
Same quest structure - talk to NPC, get quest to kill/collect 10 of x, return to NPC to collect reward.
Static NPC's stood around waiting to be talked to/killed. (same as almost every MMORPG of the last decade).
Static world - players have no actual impact on the world.
Linear quest path/ World geography, particularly at earlier levels.
Standard MMORPG structure culminating in end-game raid gear grind.
Poor implementation of and badly designed world PvP (Illum).
Poor character customisation and lack of race choice.
Standard Tank/Healer/DPS group structure (along with standard combat - pretty much contradicting Bioware's own developer commentary videos claiming it would be vastly different)
Linear space-on-rails combat sections.
Lack of UI options and Hi-res textures.
etc...

How much of this is "unmitigated crap" ? Where's the "blind hate"? Everything here is a legitimate criticism. often from people who genuinely wanted to like the game (me included).
This is hardly the same as people slamming GW2 for having a "Fantasy setting" or being "F2P"(which it isn't). It is certainly different to people criticising the game for things they have misunderstood or even made up about the game.

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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 12:12AM avaloner said

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Hope they hurry up and lift the NDA so we can get a better picture of what the game is like. Funny that the trolls hated on SWTOR for having and NDA but noone mentions GW2 having the same.

Anyway be nice when the beta begins, I hope it goes well and is a good a game as the hype makes out. I just have a feeling that tehe launch will go down like any other MMO, locusts swarming to the new shiny, rageing and screaming about stuff for the first month or two then most swarming off again to the next shiny or back to thier old faithul.

Most of the locusts wont appreciate what the devs have done, they never do no matter the game. I just hope this is not always going to be the future of MMOs.

Posted: Feb 13th 2012 1:26AM nightsong89 said

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@avaloner

There's a partial NDA in place in regards to the press beta. The press people invited to test in the month of February are allowed to talk about certain aspects of the game on the 20th of February. Basically what is still under NDA that can't be talked about is stuff that ArenaNet themselves haven't talked about (in this case... guilds, WvWvW PvP, and the new trait system). Reason press can't talk till the 20th is ArenaNet wants to give all the press enough time to get a good impression of the game before writing up their previews.

Then in March and April ArenaNet is opening the beta weekends to the general public and as far as I'm aware, there is no NDA at that point.

And for the most part... watch any video of Guild Wars 2 from any convention in 2011. Gives the best impression of what the game will look like on release (albeit without optimization or final polish).
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Posted: Feb 14th 2012 12:57AM Bhima said

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@avaloner

All games have an NDA. The reason people (like myself) where annoyed/concerned with SWTOR's NDA is the fact that it lasted as long as it did right up till less than a month before launch. Added to that, at conventions you could only play the game for 10 minutes. That had me and many others thinking the suits at EA were worried the game wasn't quite up to snuff. Unfortunately (at least for me) it wasn't, even though I loved the KOTOR series and was quite excited for the game.

Anet is lifting part of their NDA on Feb. 20th, with greater openings in March and April. Also they let people play for 40 minutes at a time at conventions. The game probably won't be out till at least mid-late June, so their NDA doesn't seem as overly restrictive as SWTOR's was. It actually seems at least as good as most big game releases.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 2:37AM Fuzzz said

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love the guy speaking at the end of the video, he seems nervous and emotional, and the message he gives about the game, it just gives of a great feeling from the developers!

like many of the players here I have played some -100+mmo's. Which is why it always confuses me when people say that GW2 will be just like the other mmo's. You don't have to watch more than one or two demo videos on youtube to realise that it is widely different.
GW2 does what GW did, something different, and personally I'm glad that they do. But like the original GW it is not going to be for everyone, the developers even said so.

Posted: Feb 13th 2012 9:26AM mystique said

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The devs are so passionate and excited about this game. Makes me glad they did not rush it, but I am beside myself to get my hands on it. Was so sure I was gonna be an asura elementalist, but lately thinking maybe an asura guardian. Gonna need to have a bunch of characters going to chose my fave ;)

Posted: Feb 13th 2012 10:52AM Daverator said

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So if you enjoy playing a healer or tank, this isn't the game for you?

Posted: Feb 13th 2012 11:46AM Irem said

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@Daverator
It depends. Any class can play a "protector" role, so if what you like about tanking is being able to defend teammates and counter enemies hands-on, then you might enjoy it; if what you like about tanking is being the sole person taking damage and holding all aggro, maybe not. Any class can support, so if what you like about healing is being able to make your teammates more effective, or helping keep them afloat, you might enjoy it; if you like the traditional direct-healing model where you're responsible for everyone's health and buffs, maybe not. Some people will most likely miss having dedicated tanks and healers because they think those roles play fine as they are, but chances are they could find something to enjoy about GW2's system anyway. It's worth trying out if you get the chance in the future, either way.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 12:38PM (Unverified) said

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@Daverator

See, now we run into the verbal hair splitting. When somebody says, "Oh, I really wanted to be a tank. I guess if this game doesn't have that, it's not for me" you'll get responses like this last one. "Oh, you can be a tank type! You should play! It's not a 'tank' like other mmos. In GW2 you run around buffing and protecting your groupmates and defending people! See? Not like a 'tank' in other mmos at all! How innovative!"

Give me a break. It's a god damned tank. The fact that many classes can fill the roll doesn't mean there isn't a 'tank' slot in the game and in groups. And instead of a 'direct heal' spell roster, they have a bunch of aoe and ground targeted heals. Christ. How fine can the fanboys split the semantic hairs on this game?
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 1:01PM JVJunior said

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@(Unverified)

erm...no. You can't be a "tank" - there are no aggro gaining mechanics and taking only a few hits will kill you, no matter what class or "spec". Healing is a support mechanic and cannot be used to keep a "tank" alive indefinitely - the combat simply doesn't work that way.

Got nothing to do with semantics, it's to do with people not understanding how the game works.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 1:21PM Irem said

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@(Unverified)
You might try reading up on how the game works, and calming down.

Since I don't know whether Daverator is interested -only- in traditional tanking and healing, I don't know whether or not there's anything in the game they'd enjoy. If you like holding aggro constantly and soaking damage, you won't find that. If you like standing on the backlines making health bars fill, you won't find that. It's not "splitting hairs" to point out that the way things work in this game differ enough that if you're looking for something specific you won't find it, but that there are similar enough elements that someone might find something to enjoy.

And why is it a bad thing to suggest that someone try out a game and make up their own mind? I'm not sitting here trying to reassure this person that they'll be totally happy, no, trust me, everything about the game is perfect; I'm saying that if they like tanking and healing and aren't absolutely married to the traditional setup that it might be worth their time. For crying out loud, why are you acting like interest in a freaking game is some kind of line drawn in the sand? Go outside.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 2:21PM Space Cobra said

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@(Unverified)

IMHO, it seems like a "Jack of all trades" thing to do; I tend to do (and prefer) this style of play. I think we see it mostly in Single-Player games, but I try to do these roles in MMOs to be more "self-sufficient" and solo-friendly. I may dabble in 2 or three roles.

It's a different way to think about it, because the easy "counter" response would be, "Oh, it is a single-player game!" While you could do that, I don't think it discounts grouping. While under one MMO, I could DPS and Heal decently (but not awesomely), I can still heal decently. I think in grouping, things can either be pre-defined and/or fluid. You can assign roles or have people DPS a boss and watch each other's health bars and add healing when needed or adapt "on the fly" and really, with things like TERA and Vindictus and even DCUO, that kind of gameplay is more active/dynamic and keeps one on their toes.

In someways, it is a much more flexible and "realistic" (I am using "realistic" loosely here) system, in that if I give a bunch of guys some switchblades and placed them in an open Arena with an angry elephant, are you going to go all DPS on it (Assuming I won't open the doors unless your group or the elephant is dead)? Will you drag a buddy out of harm's way from his stomps? Maybe someone provokes it unplanned as another takes out his hidden flamethrower (where did he hide that??)? There are still "resources" to manage, but since everyone has the same number, you have to manage what is what and who does what and it probably will wind up being unplanned and more "by the seat of your pants" gameplaying (like a more action MMO).
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Posted: Feb 15th 2012 4:17PM jakofascalon said

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People are hardcore criticizing the game on other Massively posts and in other forums and social media sites. The hardcore fans are valiantly defending GW2 as well and it's causing flame wars, which is what I was talking about. I actually wasn't referring to SWTOR at all, but thanks for all the extras.
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Posted: Feb 13th 2012 4:02PM donweel said

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Glad that a game developer is making the move to dump the healer tank dps model. I refuse to buy any game that continues that tired and now boring, and unrealistic mechanic. SWtOR is the last one. I also look to see what Secret World comes up with.

Posted: Feb 14th 2012 1:31AM doublerainbow said

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A game that actually requires skill, paying attention, desire for story, and more... Oh and no insane leveling curves, No kill-stealing, No ganking lowbies, and the game starts at level 1 rather than at max level.

I can't wait. The art is gorgeous, the music a masterpeice, and the design of combat and how fluid and nice it looks. All of these things tell me that I am going to be saving money.

No need for anything else if you can have the creme de la creme.

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