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Reader Comments (42)

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:08PM (Unverified) said

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"Now, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and I'm really enjoying the game and the dialogue. But it's a different kind of fun than what we have in other MMOs. Yes, we're still developing a character identity, but it's a more passive experience."

I don't know about you, but when I played WoW, I don't remember ever having even the slightest resemblance of immersion or an active experience developing a character identity. All of it came from what you decided to do yourself, like through chat and whatnot, and that you can easily do in swtor too. Thus, I disagree.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:10PM madcartoonist said

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Not really a fix or anything, but a silent rogue type of character could pass on dialog rolls. I'm not 100% sure if you will still get social points or not. I kind of think you do but will always be the lowest.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:11PM (Unverified) said

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"In SWTOR, if we were grouped, he wouldn't be able to quietly lurk in the shadows; he'd be standing in line with the rest of the group, and if he was the one to win the dialogue roll, his character would perform whatever reply he chose (since there's no option to remain silent)."

Wrong- you don't have to answerl- just don't pick an option and you will pass on the roll. It will time out.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:40PM fallwind said

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@(Unverified) "It will time out."

does everyone else have to sit around and wait while it does?
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 4:33PM Eamil said

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@fallwind

Yes. The game really needs a pass-dialogue option, maybe with the caveat that you're stuck with the light/dark point value of whoever wins if you pass on a moral choice. Sometimes my unassuming agent really wants to just sit back and watch his Sith commander execute the bastard we're talking to instead of doing it himself.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:17PM Malagarr said

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Good read.

I often times find myself escaping out of conversations and making different choices because I don't like how my character responded with the option I chose. I don't really worry about LS/DS. There's plenty in game for those who don't Min/Max. But I do sometimes care about how my companions will react, or if an an option just doesn't fit my character after thinking the prompt I chose would result in a different action.

Like you said, it's not bad. It's just different. I really enjoy it, myself. But I can see where it could get on some people's nerves.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:31PM Arkanaloth said

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I tend to disagree. I feel like there's more identity to my TOR characters than any other MMO I've played. (which is more than I care to recount)

On the one hand I see what you're saying... "in "game x" I can choose to be whatever I want" but my thing about that is what does it matter? That choice in previous games affects nothing and is meaningless. As a *LONG* time dice / paper RPG'er there isn't a single MMO I've played, sandbox or theme park, that provides even 1/100th of the character development you see in well run tradition dice games, however, in SWTOR I've found at least *some* measure of character depth that has meaning (all be it fairly shallow linear meaning but that's not the point) above and beyond what you type into a rarely inspected character bio.

For example my sith warrior has this sorta code of honor thing going on so I select dialog choices that, to me, fit this concept(light or dark doesn't matter). When grouping with other players they see the choices I make (when I win the roll) and have some idea of how I see the character. It's not much, but it's a start and light years ahead of other games where you have a character bio and that's it and the extent of your dialog choices are "yes" or "no", leaving character development to be done through random and often interrupted chatting in a semi-public area.

Additionally thanks to SWTOR's dialog tree conversation scenes, even people "not into" RP, cannot break the immersion of the RP moment. Let's face it, the VAST majority of MMO gamers these days probably wouldn't know a D10 if it hit them in the face and have no clue what THAC0 is / was...

Posted: Feb 3rd 2012 2:16AM Tizmah said

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@Arkanaloth Problem with your line of thought though, what if I've played with numerous sith warrior players in the same instance back to back? No matter who is the player, I'm still going to see that sith warrior as the default Bioware character no matter how you play it. There might be one who chooses light and one who chose dark, but all the inbetweens are the same, perhaps words differently occasionally.

Unvoiced players created a better illusion of having different personality based on appearance alone. Our minds are good at that stuff and ends up amplifying things.

When you boil it down to Good vs Bad, plus the personality the voice actor gives...It allows no freedom. Everything is set. Your mind can't think outside the box. Thus, every sith warrior feels just like the last, No matter if you are "JoeSomebody" or "SarahSkywalkman". Keeping quiet makes me feel a difference more.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:37PM Daverator said

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A few notes:
1. As mentioned you can choose to not select an option and never speak in dialogue. Altho your groupmates may grow tired of waiting for you to timeout.

2. The LS/DS really do not require farming. To use the color crystals only require dark/light 1. And the relics that are light/dark V are replaced easily with better relics (IE exact same stats but higher). It is merely part of a character so players automatically want it to be maxed.


Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 3:13PM DerpMchurson said

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@Daverator Ya, people are farming social points for the Party Time title. Not the lame relics, lol.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:46PM Joaquin Crowe said

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A good start, but for me it's the use of the "voiced protagonist" that kills character identity. I ended up playing a female character in TOR because I could just not stand the majority of the male voices you have to use. And even then, she wasn't all that I'd envisioned -my- character to be.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:47PM Fimp said

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I would argue that you are immersed -more- into the game and its setting than in other games, such as WoW. Rarely in WoW were you presented with moral dilemnas, and usually a quick scan over the quests followed by running to complete it is all that was required.

In SWTOR, you are forced to make choices which are quite often morally polar opposites. You are forced to participate in the story. You are forced to pick a place in the world where your character fits.

What you are talking about is, in fact, role-playing. What was happening in-game in WoW is the same thing that is brought to the surface in SWTOR that you can actually see and experience: your character interacts with the world around him or her. The same possibilities for jumping into your role that existed in WoW also exist in SWTOR.

And again, I would say that you are experiencing more of the game with SWTOR than with WoW because of BioWare's approach.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 2:50PM Leandra said

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I rolled on an RP server in TOR, and have been thinking a lot lately about how the character story and dialogue options influence the way that people form their characters. In WoW (or other non-voiced games) your character is basically a blank slate beyond race, class, and gender -- whereas in TOR, your character will always be interpreted by their voice actor.

For example, my female Sith Inquisitor sounds haughty and seems to have a dry sense of humor. And I love that. As a roleplayer I'm of course free to play her however I want outside of the story, but I wonder how many people attach themselves to their character as they're already presented.

And on a slightly related note, what really annoys me in RP is when people refer to their companions by name -- I've met at least three bounty hunters who referred to Mako. It seems to reinforce my theory that people are allowing themselves to define their character too much by the story.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 4:30PM Joaquin Crowe said

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@Leandra I could help running around saying "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite shop on Coruscant" while playing a Trooper. So, yeah, the VO was more a distraction than an enabler.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 3:16PM DarkWalker said

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I prefer when my character isn't voiced, and even better when his lines aren't even shown; I really can't be immersed in my character when I'm being spoon fed his voice and lines, I need to imagine how he would answer (and how his voice would sound, his tone, etc) by myself to really get into character.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 3:25PM (Unverified) said

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Christ, what a nonsense. Have we forgotten, when doing quests in other MMO's there is NO choice in how your avatar will react, it's 'accept whatever your avatar spouts as response and click ok to accept quest' and that's it, no choice at all.
At least SWTOR offers you MORE choice how your character responds when accepting quests to the zero-choice and 1-response option of quests in other MMO's.

Not that it's that new: people who've played in AoC have already seen it before, ewven more, you were The Chosen One in that game with a special mark that no one else had in the world - well, except for every other player of course who did the same quests.
Did this however became a problem at all on RP server?
Not at all.

Roleplayers knew to see the quest reality of their character to see as something separately from how they developed their character besides quests.
At least SWTOR gives you the option to have your general attitude and stance of your character be more in line with how you feel your character's identity is than in other MMO's, where you have to completely ignore your char's personality and only-1-answer in questing.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 3:49PM Lockisezmode said

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@Dunraven I couldn't agree more with this sentiment.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 3:57PM winterborn said

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Sorry but this game sucks when it comes to options and freedom compaired to other mmo's and the pen and paper games they came from.

You might as well have just picked a pre made character from a list like most RPG's. This game seems like it was just KOTOR3 before some multiplayer parts were added to it.

You can not choose your own story, your companions, your ship, the planets you adventure on etc. It is all way too "On Rails" due to the story based mechanics.

Many people dont find this a problem but I dont play MMO's for the same reason I play RPG's.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 7:29PM winterborn said

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@(Unverified)
Have a beer man and calm down and read what I wrote.
I never said anything about that specific issue so please read before you flame.
I understand your point about NPC quest options but thats not what I am talking about. So you get to choose 3 different things more than the standard yes or no, although it does not make much diff in the long run anyway.

Fact is that the Story dictates way to much and that is why you can not have as many options. It would be too many variables for the pre made story to follow.

I think the more options the better for MMO's but some dont care.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2012 4:27PM (Unverified) said

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I'm afraid I agree that it's utter nonsense to argue that SWTOR, which solidly offers us choices, each with some consequence, is "channeling" us. Of course the story line is never allowed to stray much from the overall plot, but we as players, can at least feel that we have been given a choice, made that choice, and have been made aware of the consequences of that choice. Sometimes it it may be just a feeling of pride that we have stuck to our LS/DS guns, sometimes we may be pleased or disappointed by our current companions approval, or lack thereof, of our choice, based on their likes/dislikes. I kinda like getting mail from some of the NPCs arising from decisions we've made - either praising and rewarding us, or maybe lambasting us. This is good stuff that enhances my immersion. To criticize this almost seems like the result of an epidemic of disapproval of SWTOR that seems to be spreading around Massively's writers.

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