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Reader Comments (64)

Posted: Jan 26th 2012 8:11AM smartstep said

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Everyone should have EQUAL ACCESS to same mechanics , so fair in my opinion EXCLUDE CASH SHOP.


Apart of that I am against about class mirroring (for faction based game) and unifiying everything + I prefer open pvp rather than instanced equal sized team battlegrounds (I mean I can play them but if they are main pvp activity then I don't like it).

Zerg shold be countered by certain mechanics and skills that allow beat bigger group by tactic , clever use of aoe skills ,etc - howto see DAoC.

Posted: Jan 26th 2012 12:15PM (Unverified) said

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@smartstep

I'd agre to a point.

Fair is about putting skill first. So, no pvp stats, no gear advantage, no increased skills.

You, me, on an equal footing as far as gear and abilities goes, after that, its whoever is left standing. Get the drop on me? well done. Come at me 3 on 1 in world pvp? fine. But if it ever comes down to gear > skill, its not only not fair, its pointless.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 3:41PM DarkWalker said

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@(Unverified)

I mostly feel the same.

If a MMO's PvP has gear (or alternate advancement, or anything else that is grind or money based) playing more than a trivial part, I won't play it. Simple as that.

I want to have a fair chance at beating my opponent, but more important, I want my opponent to have a fair chance at beating me too.

End result, I can stand PvP on just a couple MMOs. Otherwise, I go to dedicated PvP games, with little to no character or gear advancement, to have my PvP fix.

It's one of the reasons I'm really waiting for GW2; it's Arena mode apparently won't have any form of character progression (standard gear, all skills unlocked while in the Arenas), so it should be one of the quite rare MMOs that I can stand to play PvP.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 10:50PM Zyrusticae said

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@DarkWalker

"I want to have a fair chance at beating my opponent, but more important, I want my opponent to have a fair chance at beating me too."

Yup, this is essentially my mindset as well.

I find fights where I essentially steamroll the opposition due to the double-whammy effect of being both more geared *and* more skilled to be incredibly boring and pointless. I also tend to feel sorry for the guy on the recieving end, knowing that what they went through is more frustration than anything else (one reason I can never really get into EVE Online or any other game that thrives on schadenfreude).

I simply do not understand why developers continue to implement itemization that makes it basically impossible for anyone without top-tier gear to compete in any meaningful fashion. It's a self-defeating system, one that really needs to be abolished ASAP. PvP simply cannot work in games like that.

The gear-dependency, in combination with the really rather insane RNG components (godstones especially), makes PvP in Aion incredibly frustrating more often than not. If it weren't for those elements, it would actually be my favorite MMO - but they're there, and they color the experience in a very, very negative light.

There are excuses for this kind of system - the randomness help makes up for the gear-dependency by letting weaker players win by virtue of high dice rolls, but quite frankly, when players don't feel like they have any sort of agency in their own success, something is very, very wrong.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 8:16AM (Unverified) said

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As a fighting game player, I believe that "fair" doesn't matter if the game has a high enough skill ceiling to let a skilled player bypass statistical advantages.
Too bad MMOs haven't really gotten to that point yet, but hopefully soon.

Posted: Jan 26th 2012 8:26AM Balraw said

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Hmm interesting that this should come up now considering I just left swtor partially due to what I consider to be an unfair mechanic that forced me into an unfair pvp fight on a pve server while I wasn't flagged for pvp. Namely the AOE force flagging that is or was at least starting to get to be a problem on the pve server I was on. A mechanic that basically made me fodder for someone who couldn't hack a real pvp server so has to gank on a pve server using what I consider to be unfair mechanics.

Thing is if I had met these people while I was in a pvp area then I wouldn't have had any problem with them killing as I was consenting to said battle but to jump some one in a pve area is *grits teeth and remains polite* low to say the least.

Posted: Jan 26th 2012 11:52AM Balraw said

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@Balraw lol voted down ... why? Is it bad that I don't like pve gankers or is it that I don't happen to like swtor as it is currently implemented?

If you are a pve ganker then well .... I can't say here and remain polite so I will keep that opinion to myself. If you happen to like swtor then good for you and I am glad you are having fun but its not for me as it is currently implemented. Don't hate the game or its players nor do I want it to fail but I didn't find it fun, simple as.

"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too."
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 12:19PM DerpMchurson said

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@Balraw You are TERRIFIED of PvP, we get it, but throwing a fit because you got flagged for a second is just silly.

At worst, you lost a few mins of play time. Stay out of the FFA areas, Don't AoE near pvp flagged players, turn your pet AoE's off, and don't heal or buff pvp flagged players. It's that simple.

Or be a child and cry about it.

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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 12:58PM Caerus said

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@DerpMchurson

"Stay out of the FFA areas, Don't AoE near pvp flagged players, turn your pet AoE's off, and don't heal or buff pvp flagged players. It's that simple."

Are you fucking kidding me?

- Doesn't sound like he was in a FFA area
- In other words, just flat out don't play the MMO portion of a MMO game?

From what I've read this is a legitimate gripe with a poorly implemented autoflag mechanic. People in the OPs position are doing everything reasonable to avoid PvP and explicitly made server decisions on that basis, and you say it's crying when the game breaks?

This type of response is just unbelievable - people rolled on PvE servers BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT TO HAVE INVOLUNTARY PvP! THIS IS INVOLUNTARY PvP! HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY HE'S NOT JUSTIFIED IN COMPLAINING?
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 1:23PM DerpMchurson said

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@Caerus From what you read? Gimmie a break. I've rolled two classes to 50 and only saw a member of the opposite faction once on Hoth.

In a game this heavily instanced, this really is an easily avoidable non-issue. Stop making mountains out of molehills. The game has way worse issues in PVP at endgame than some whiney carebear drama that happened while you were derping around Tatooine.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 2:01PM Lenn said

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@DerpMchurson If you're talking about regular, undouchebaggish PvP, yes, you have a point. I play on an RPPvP server, currently on Alderaan with my bountyhunter, and got attacked only once, on Tatooine, by a smuggler 8 levels higher who gave up because he couldn't kill me (he should have targeted Mako).

However, your point utterly fails in this case, because it's not easily avoidable if some douchebags are seeking out situations like that on purpose. And apparently, there are those douchebags.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 2:37PM Balraw said

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@DerpMchurson I suggest that you reroll onto a pve server then from my experience I seem to have had more open world pvp than you whether I wanted it or not on a pve server.

Just to clear up a point from your other post I don't hate PvP and if I had been jumped in a PvP area or flagged for PvP or in fact been on a PvP server then I would have taken it on the chin and most likely gone after the people who jumped me, even if I had no chance at taking them down. However, I was not in a PvP area nor was I flagged and not on a PvP server either so why is it me that has to make all the adjustments due to some level 50's who decided that they wanted spoil someone's game time by exploiting a broken mechanic on a PVE server

I cannot speak for what you have experienced on your server nor would I presume to and I would please ask the same courtesy from you.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 3:48PM DarkWalker said

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@DerpMchurson

If a non-flagged player, in a PvE server, outside of any PvP zones, is ever flagged against his wishes, it's a serious bug. If it's actually being exploited, it should be fixed ASAP.

It is as grave as if someone in a PvP server, or in a PvP zone, was able to unflag themselves and, thus, become completely immune to the opposite faction.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 4:29PM DerpMchurson said

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@Lenn It's still completely and utterly easy to avoid it. Don't AoE near flagged players. Turn off pet AoE. Done.

Problem solved.

The bigger issues of overtuned hardmodes, boss's bugging out in EV, and worthless Ilum PvP and faction imbalance, are more pressing concerns.

Keep the downvotes coming though, it's the hipster thing to do.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 5:37PM (Unverified) said

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@DerpMchurson

You do realize that many of the people doing it are stealthers? So you can't see them until after your AoE has hit them? That they purposely walk into so that you get flagged.

The only way to avoid it is to never AoE, EVER. In a game where you only fight one mob at a time that might not be a completely ridiculous idea, but in SWTOR where you frequently fight packs of mobs it's utterly stupid.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 5:58PM Lenn said

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@DerpMchurson "Keep the downvotes coming though, it's the hipster thing to do."

Reverse psychology isn't a very reliable technique on adults.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 7:58PM DerpMchurson said

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@Lenn Where are these adults? All I see is a bunch of sniveling whiners crying about insignificant issues. These same people are the ones who write long winded novels on forum posts about why they are unsubbing.

You act like this is a widespread phenomenon across all servers. It's not. Normal people would do what I said, turn off AoE's and move on.

But not you bunch. You need your diaper changed and ass powdered so much that you can't act like an adult and roll with the punches.

MMO's are a constant work in progress. Bugs are to be expected. Deal with it.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 8:54PM DerpMchurson said

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@(Unverified) yeah because AoE is required in order to level. My gunslinger does just fine with single target attacks.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2012 8:27AM Sorithal said

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'Fair' should mean that if two people are equally skilled, the fight would roughly be a 50% chance for a winner to show. Gear of course could help influence that chance to win for one person or another.

MMOs don't do a very good job of measuring "skill" though since often times you just macro mash or such, but some MMOs might get there eventually if they adopt a more real-time action-oriented style of combat that manages to be seamless and latency-free.

Posted: Jan 26th 2012 8:58AM smartstep said

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@Sorithal

While I agree mmorpg's should use some more actiony combat I don't want them became another RTS's type of games.

I also don't consider 'skill' as only twitch and micro. This should matter but other things like progress, gear, etx should matter as well.

Just balanced.

Don't wanna next e-sport genre.
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