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Reader Comments (200)

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 6:13PM Lenn said

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@(Unverified) The size of the game's trouser snake isn't the point, now is it? Blizzard has screwed up big time. Many times. People got pissed off. Threads full of rage on the forums. And it's still around. TOR will survive this. Bioware made a booboo. They'll correct stuff. Life goes on.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 8:27PM (Unverified) said

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@Lenn

I guess we'll find out. But I don't recall WoW engendering this kind of criticism within the first month (other than for the queue problem, which was resolved pretty quickly).

Your devotion to this game is touching. I hope it continues to be all that you want it to be. But will it still have its million subs in a year's time? I doubt it. I doubt it very much.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 9:33PM Utakata said

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@(Unverified)

Maybe because you wern't actually playing it way back then. (Or have a conveniently short memory.)

But that's besides the point. What irritates me about this affair that players are so willingly to write off a game after unintended screw up. And screw ups they'll conitune to make, just like with WoW. It's the nature of the beast with any new and used MMO. I bet dollars for donuts, if this was WoW instead of SWTOR and their fortunes and release dates where in reverse, the player fury will (and has) been as equal if not more.

So this is not evidence the game is failing. The game truely fails is when it does not live up to its expectations...and this is what ultimately failed Warhammer for example, not its stupid-ass glitches and mistakes.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 4:28PM Lenn said

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@(Unverified) My devotion? That's a bit hyperbolic. Yes, I'm playing it, and I'm having fun. I fully expected there to be bugs, both minor and major. Anyone who's played more than one MMO should. I just happen to think the reaction to this (and any other screw-up by whichever developer) is way over the top and hilariously stupid. It's not the end of the world. They screw up, they fix it. Let's move on already. Hate for hate's sake is just unhealthy.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 7:11PM pcgneurotic said

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Ah yes, now *that's* pissy. :D
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:21PM Glasonidas said

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ok so the game is only a month or so old, and yes it has been in development for a long time, and sure in this day and age established companies maybe shouldnt be making such mistakes.
here's the thing tho - in the grand scheme of things it isn't going to matter to a game this "young". sure it may cause a few issues and even make a few people rage quit and (obviously) bring out countless forum trolls to bash a game that they wont be playing anyway....but as they say "haters gonna hate".
if, like me, you are an older gamer who grew up through the 80s/90s then you will easily remember how bad things could be on release for other games. this will probably ALWAYS be the case so learn to deal with it. No game will ever be perfect as there will always be pesky gremlins/bugs/glitches/coding error/ etc that will effect gamers.
we are a hard bunch to please us gamers. I like Swtor. I think its a decent game. But im not going to sit here and try to convince the people who disagree. Everyone has an opinion and unfortunately, those of us who like to browse sites such as Massively have to put up with negative oxygen thieves who have nothing better to do than moan all the fecking time - regardless of the title in question.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:55PM Maseno said

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@Glasonidas

The 80's and 90's was a different time where you didn't have literally thousands of choices for MMO's. You had maybe 2-3 to pick from so you HAD to deal with what shape the games were in.

For an AAA game that had a HUGE budget and a very long development time these types of problems should not be occurring. Especially seeing that they brought nothing new to the table that hasn't already been done. I could see if they had some new and innovative design mechanic that some problems would occur at release, but this is just the same game we have gotten for the past 8 years with some fancy voice overs and cut scenes.

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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:23PM Balraw said

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I cancelled before the billing cycle kicked in and was no where near Ilum in any case to have been affected by this issue.

I can honestly say that I enjoyed the PvE aspect of the game. Had some real good fun in the flashpoints that I took part in and enjoyed the story quests.

Didn't enjoy the fact that despite the fact that I was playing on a PvE-RP server someone could force me into a PvP fight regardless of where I was and that I wasn't flagged for PvP. Happened to me twice at different times, reported both people for griefing/exploiting (and nothing happens, not even an acknowledgement from the CS team) and the mechanic that allows this is still possible to exploit.

I will keep an eye on swtor to see if they change this, as I said its fun but while I can be forced into unwanted PvP then this game as no place for me. Looking at the above mess it looks like I may be waiting quite a while, sadly.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 6:13PM Carnagh said

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@Balraw

Exactly the same for me... you can be forced into PvP on a PvE server, which has happened to me, and is a deal breaker for me... I appreciated I might be in the minority with this, and for those who don't care much about it, more power to you.

Not arguing in advocacy of Rift, but just as a point of reference, Rift has a toggle which ensures that you simply cannot go into PvP by any means others than turning on PvP explicitly.

I'm playing a shadow so its easy for me to duck out of being mugged, but I really dislike it intensely.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:25PM Ratham said

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Called it - Knew it was going to be Warhammer OWPVP all over again.


Yes when I said anything i was told i was just bad or to re-roll empire...

Hp/Damage Buffs for republic players or limit the # of people in the zone or this games pvp playerbase is done.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:44PM Daeths said

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@Ratham Buffing one faction only would simply flip the numbers around. Bioware would have to have some dynamic buffing system that seems more complicated to be released any time soon and hope for it to work properly or be any where near balanced.

As for limiting the # of people who can join in, well then you just turning it in to a Battle Ground like wow or a War Front like Rift and that kills the whole open concept of the map.

The real issue is that Open World PvP will never be fair or balanced. To attempt to do so would require killing that which makes it open and not just some PvP arena
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:36PM (Unverified) said

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It's as if 10's of voices all cried out and were suddenly forced to respawn.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:39PM edgecrusherO0 said

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Watching what has been happening to this game post-launch is pretty painful. It's one blunder after another : /

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:53PM Deadalon said

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@edgecrusherO0

Its Warhammer all over again. Partly same ppl working on it so no really a surprise.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:39PM Fabius Bile said

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this game was being run terribly bad so far, but this indeed was the last straw

I had nothing but the geratest respect for BioWare as a game developer till SWToR. Now I simply cannot explain the sheer amount of incompoetence I have in front of my eyes.

and not just in 1.1. the game jumed the shark on release day 1, its every ounce as bad, and as plagued by critical problems as WAR or AoC were, and it will definetly follow the same path.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:41PM Fabius Bile said

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this game was being run terribly bad so far, but this indeed was the last straw

I had nothing but the greatest respect for BioWare as a game developer till SWToR. Now I simply cannot explain the sheer amount of incompoetence I have in front of my eyes. Im shocked.

and not just in 1.1. the game jumed the shark on release day 1, its every ounce as bad, and as plagued by critical problems as WAR or AoC were, and I have no doubt it will share the same fate.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:42PM dudes said

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It's almost gamebreaking.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:47PM donweel said

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PVP is very a very minor concern for me. By it's very nature it is impossible to balance completely. Adding a third faction would spice things up I think. Such as allowing a neutral alignment. Allow agents and Bounty Hunters Scoundrels Gunslingers to fight on either side or just be neutral a third alignment and fight both or help one against the other.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:50PM Deadalon said

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Feels like Mythic is in charge again. Exactly the same they did with Warhammer.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 6:00PM Mystal said

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This is why two faction world PvP doesn't work. Any serious PvPer could have explained this to their developers.

Here's how to screw up world PvP in an MMO:

1) Make it based on capturing, but not holding locations that have no significance except for being an arbitrary objective. This gives people incentives NOT to fight, because game theory shows fighting to be a sub optimal outcome.

2) Reward people directly for kills. This encourages ganking and ganging up.

3) Have exactly two opposing factions hard coded into the game. This ensures that population imbalance will be the deciding factor, no matter how well the game is otherwise balanced.

4) Create asynchronous abilities. By giving one faction or another hard coded differences from their enemies, you ensure that at the very least, one side or the other will be perceived as the inherently superior side.

Bioware managed to hit 3.5 out of 4 methods to make world PvP suck. IN theory, classes are mirrored across factions, making #4 a non issue, but in execution there are a lot of tangible differences cross faction, many of them seeming to favor the Sith Empire.

I honestly feel like the people who designed PvP in SWTOR should probably be fired, and forced to give back the salary they stole while pretending to be professional designers. Did they really do any research into other MMOs to find out what has or hasn't worked, and why?

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