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Reader Comments (52)

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 7:46PM Dunraven said

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Good luck with the five players the will get with that system

Yeah folks scream hardcore and sandbox...but the reality is very few will actually play that.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 8:33PM h4ngedm4n said

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@Dunraven
I agree. But at least with something like this, we can point those kinds of players to the right game for them. Maybe there is enough of a niche to sustain this kind of game, but I think most of the players who want full loot drop also want easy targets. In the end, those five players you mentioned will quit too, because there is no one for them to kill besides each other (too much effort, too risky).
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 1:04AM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@Dunraven

EVE online has this - and has been around/successful for many years (until CCP ruined it for entirely different reasons).

It works - and it fosters a different type of playstyle and attracts competely different type of players usually resulting in very "tight" community (again, look at EVE, one of the best MMO communities around, despite the cutthroat approach of the game).

I'm actually carefully starting to look forward to this game.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 2:08AM h4ngedm4n said

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@SgtBaker1234556
I hear you, I've enjoyed EVE and agree that it works well for EVE. However, I do not think the support is there for the high fantasy setting. Look at how poorly Mortal Online and Darkfall have done, and both were supposed to be sandboxy games with a harsh pvp ruleset. I think the main cause for this is the setting. We all accept our spaceships blowing up in EVE Online, but somehow having your fantasy HERO die is less enjoyable for many players.

There is also the nice thing about EVE in that low level (low sp) players can contribute something useful to a battle (e-war) and thus feel the death was okay, while low leveled characters in high fantasy MMORPGs are completely useless in pvp. Except maybe as throwaway scouts.

Also the killmails/killboards in EVE help make deaths feel better; after all you get to see that your dead frigate contributed some damage to the death of the enemy battleship before you died. In a fantasy MMO on the other hand, all you get is lifetime kills & deaths. Died in battle = +1 death and that is all that is recorded.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 2:24AM h4ngedm4n said

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@SgtBaker1234556
Actually I looked over Pathfinder's page more closely after reading your comment. There is definitely a lot to look forward to. I hope this developer leverages his experience from working with CCP and incorporates the supporting elements that made a harsh death penalty work. I will be following this game for sure.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 3:25AM Fuzzz said

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@Dunraven seemed fairly simple to understand, love it that you have to fulfil prerequisites to gain lvl's
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 9:34AM (Unverified) said

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@h4ngedm4n Darkfall and Mortal havent done poorly because of full looting. Mortal was buggy as hell, and Darkfall has failed to deliver on promises. The full looting, however, works great.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 7:49PM Space Cobra said

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Corpse runs?

That is so....1990's. :p

On one hand, they had some neat stories to tell, but so do things like getting a flat tire (before cell phones were commonplace) and other nuisances that were a "pain" at the time you were living the event, but make great stories to tell afterwards when you reminisce about it.

Especially lootable corpses...They either better have different server rules or expect the bulk of players to get turned off by this. The Bounty System seems like a nice deterrent, but I can see that not doing much, particularly if you are the "noob with no money" and the PKer killing you has more game time and money to boot than you do.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:31PM Celtar said

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Celtar leaps form the shadows lunging at Space Cobra with a dirk!
>
Celtar snickers.
>
Celtar says dryly," Stick'em up".
>
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 2:13AM Space Cobra said

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@Celtar

Ten years later....

"I remember that time when someone held me up with a Dirk. Musta been ten or so years ago. What was his name? Ah, yes, 'Celtar'.

I remember he had a fancy dirk and a grin on his face. He had flourish in his moves that I saw as I fell to the ground. It was just like all the stories I heard about New York City!

Oh, and the corpse run! I had to strip off everything I had, so I wouldn't lose anything else, and then slowly and carefully go back through, with no teleporter...in the snow...in a cave-dungeon....through FIVE World Bosses and enviroments that leached HP points in certain areas without the right equipment. I even came across a surly bunch that woulda ganked me, but they just laughed at the cash-shop Hello Kitty boxers I purchased for the base model for my avatar. In fact, they turned out to be Hello Kitty fans themselves and let me through and helped me to reach the point.

Boy, that took the whole day, but what an experience. Sure, I couldn't keep up with my guild and it set me back, but it was great fun...well, looking back at it. Actually, I threw my Monitor through my window in frustration and it almost hit someone. had to go to court for a lawsuit because of that.

Now *that* was also a story! It was snowing both ways inside the courtroom..."
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 2:25AM Celtar said

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@Space Cobra

lol! +1 for the laugh. :)

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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 7:56PM JonBuck said

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About ten years ago I found a song by Electric Funstuff called "Has anyone seen my corpse?" It was about exactly this. Hell, the EQ death penalty actually involved losing XP. I went down a level at one point!

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:29PM Celtar said

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@JonBuck

You think losing some experience is rough? Should have seen system you could lose a few points in stats if you decayed and didn't get your body raised or rescued. Add to that item breakage that actually had a chance of breaking a weapon while in use, you know like real items work.

Personally I miss when achievements meant something, that the risk/reward system existed. What has happened is "other" genre players have come on over to online rpg genre game worlds and shouted and screamed and developers listened.

They dumbed down challenges, they removed the concept of risk/reward. Most game worlds are no longer truly immersive in the way they used to be, and most lead you by the nose. Ruining the sense of achievement, wonder and immersion. There is no sense of danger or risk involved, not even really a slap on the hand anymore when you screw up.

I personally think this leads to the snark factor of players, they are more easily bored and since they really never have to really work on the social aspects of needing others they can be snipes. Risk? No risk, no need to be nice or work with others, no need to so a bit of social etiquette. We won't even get into the lack of role-play or trying to remain more IC and not be OOC.

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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 8:00PM (Unverified) said

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Oh my god. When I first glanced at the title I thought the game was dying.

*phew*

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 8:06PM Miffy said

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I think different games suit different death penalties. EVE Onlines and SWG Pre CUs made sense for their player crafted economies where they need to lose items or have decay to keep the economy going.

However for games like WoW or SWTOR you don't want to lose an item to be forced to run the same boring dungeon again to get it. I would prefer it if you just lost enchantments or mods equipped on them items.

I would also like the ability to lose or gain PVP rank depending on how well or bad you're doing, which currently doesn't happen.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:17PM Saucelah said

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@Miffy

This what I say every. single. time. Any mechanic, and I mean any, is good or bad in context, not always one or always the other no matter where it is placed.

I feel anyone who doesn't get that lacks imagination.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 8:47PM Masync9 said

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Up next: wash bards as we all know clothing washers are really just an unnecessary convenience.

I really hope they have separate ruleset servers. If not that is one game I will definitely not be paying for.

Unless this is some kind of PR stunt, I am quite disappointed to hear of this. When I think of Pathfinder, I think of their quality products and how much I have enjoyed them. I guess that spirit of game design did not cross over from their pen and paper department.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:49PM demonlife said

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@Masync9

If anything I'd say this is in keeping with the spirit of most PnP RPGs. The whole respawn without penalty (or reload a previous save in single-player RPGs) is something you never see in PnP, unless you have a very liberal and forgiving DM.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 7:34PM Masync9 said

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@demonlife

Sure but that is making an assumption that your playgroup and experiences have been exactly the same as mine which they are not.

What you enjoy is not a guarantee of what others may enjoy or consider a good time for all to be had. Advantage of pen and paper games is the flexibility vs the rigid structure of an MMO design.

Two people can walk out of the store with the same rule books but post back later with entirely different experiences and enjoyment. Lastly, there are plenty of forum posts out on the net of players trying to "find that right group" to enjoy their interpretation of the game with.

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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 8:53PM Saker said

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I expect they'll end up modifying this system, I think it'll turn off too many people to make for a viable game. Death does need to have consequences or it's just no fun, it's all about balance. I believe those who like myself do want a good immerse sandbox do want there to be danger involved, but the idea of getting hit this hard... too much. EQ1 was my first MMO that really grabbed me, the old death penalty was hard, but it also made for the excitement. The corpse runs weren't fun but they did bring adventure to the game, and helped to build community, people would help each other, all having shared the same tragedy. Generally looking forward to hearing more about this game, what the details of the mechanics are they are planning. The setting is certainly interesting with just so much back-story! I'm hopeful of some kind of skill vs old-crap level system.

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