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Reader Comments (136)

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:36AM Seare said

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@(Unverified)

BTW, your definition of quality may be the same a Jef, but not the same as mine. I happen to think TOR is a great game, but you and Jef would probably disagree. Keep in mind, I never played WOW and never will. I played SWG for years and a few other MMOs for short periods of time.

MMOs cost too much money to make for companies to invest in a model that has not been very successful. Like it or not, that is reality.
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Posted: Jan 28th 2012 11:08AM Borick said

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@Seare And some of us realize that rational numbers only exist in relation to each other, and that there are no absolutes. 1+1=2 only for sufficient values of 1.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 9:14AM Crapplebag said

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I agree with everything Samael said except for the part about liking Jef's writing.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:31AM Seare said

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@Crapplebag

Disregard. Didn't mean to reply to you. Sorry.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:30AM Seare said

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I'm not knocking Jef at all (not this time). If he prefers a Mustang, than by all means buy one. Support the brand with your hard earned cash. What's the point in getting mad at Ford for discontinuing the Mustang because it's not making enough money (hypothetical)? What's the point in getting mad at Ford for making more Fusions because they have more consumer demand than the Mustang?

A psychotic thinks 1+1=5. A neurotic know that 1+1=2, but can't stand it. There are a lot of neurotics in the MMO community.

.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:37AM smartstep said

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Okay. Thing is.

Current mmorpg's are more like just normal multiplayer instanced games more similar to FPS or RTS games like CoD or Starcraft II than real Massively Multiplayer persistant seamless world.

You're right I don't like current mmropg's cause in my opnion they are not MMORPG's anymore.

So yeah I am and will continue to bash them.

Deal with it.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:20AM OutThere said

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Gaming is highly-subjective, since the key parts of it take place almost entirely in our heads. It's like THE kiss. That perfect kiss you remember and want all others to be like. THE kiss that you are looking for whenever you kiss your lover. Everyone's idea of the perfect kiss, the perfect gaming moment, the perfect combination of challenge, effort, reward, and adventure is different.

We're all looking for that bright, elusive butterfly of love whenever we log on to a new game. Is this the one? Is this the one we are going to fall in love with? Naturally, when we find out our new lover has nothing to offer that's any better or different than we've had before, we're disappointed. And we head out, still looking for that perfect kiss.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:21AM Gruntpole said

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Voicing displeasure is fine and dandy. It is when it turns into an unending wall of whine that it starts to go overboard. And that wall of whine, in my eyes, began with the NGE. Don't like the games that are being made today because you feel they are for "children"? Fine, can you keep the crying to one post, thread maybe?

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:28AM SargentWild said

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To criticize a game in a review (or evaluation/impressions) should be standard practice if warrented. However, the presentation fails when we see bloggers posting "I hate this half empty glass". As apposed to a more journalistic approach of "This 8 oz. glass containing 4 oz. of liquid fails to live up to my expectations". The first is just hate for the sake of hate. The second presents a fact, then ones interpretation of that fact.

I should note, that I see more of the latter here on massively. Which is why I'm here, and not reading other blogs.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:30AM Ocho said

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My thoughts on the negative turn of the industry are like this: You have Article A and Article B. Both give the same news on a particular game. Article A gives the news negatively. Article B gives the same news positively.

Personally, I'd much rather read Article B, which gives me the same exact news that article A does, but lets me come away from it with a more positive outlook about the game I spent $ to play.

However, if forums/comment sections are really to be believed, the majority of people prefer Article A. They want to get the news, but feel justified that they didn't buy a game/quit a game/hate a style of game. These people will greatly outnumber the ones actually playing and enjoying a game.

I won't lie... depending on the game, I like both. But when I'm really playing a particular game, I won't spend as much time reading news on other games (especially those I don't like).

So how about this for a reason why... most of the "best" MMOs mentioned in this soapbox are from the mid 90's when the American economy was doing fantastic. There was a lot of money to be made due to the burgeoning economy of the internet, and lots of experimental games and genres were being tested on a wide scale... simply because the risk at the time was less. So news was very positive because the majority of people reading the news had the money to actually play them. Fast forward to the 00's where the economy has taken a serious downturn. Now the majority of readers won't buy a game or won't get into it or will only play it for a shorter time simply due to its cost. So since the majority has shifted to non-players, the news now bends more negatively.

The genre has changed, but so has its surroundings... my prediction: the golden age of MMO's still has yet to happen. When the American economy once more picks itself up and extra money is more prevalent, a lot more game companies will take those big chances they can't make now, and we will see a huge resurgence of both sandbox/themepark alike. Right now... the big companies are playing it safe, and really... can you blame them? A failure means possibly the loss of income and jobs for MANY people. Mark my words... it WILL get better. A LOT better.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 1:42PM RoninBlade said

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I don't have a problem with negative reviews in general, but I do have a problem with reviews that dismiss a game (or anything else) just because the reviewer hates the genre.

Imagine a music reviewer writing, "Rap isn't music. It's just noise and people talking. Why don't kids today listen to real artists like the Beatles or the Rolling Stones instead of all this Eminem and Lady Gaga crap?" and posting that review for every new rap or hip-hop album.

Imagine a writer at a car magazine writing, "SUVs suck. They waste gas and, they handle horribly on a race track. Minivans are for losers. They're underpowered, have horrible 0-60 times, and are laughable in the slalom. The only cars worth considering are two-seat, rear-wheel drive sports cars," and posting that as a review for every SUV or minivan.

Personally I agree with the latter, and I'm irritated that car companies put out so many boring SUVs and minivans just because people want to buy them. I would much rather have all car companies focus primarily on building the best sports cars possible. But different people have different tastes.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 5:41PM Softserve said

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The thing that strikes me about stuff like this is that people complain about these issues, but never turn out in numbers for the games that actually at least try to fit that mold.

How long were we all told of the doom and gloom coming up in Star Wars Galaxies? How many of us completely avoided it because of those changes that its initial players claimed was the jump the shark moment?

Where were all of these people when Fallen Earth came out? That's a recent, pretty solid example of many of the things MMO naysayers claim to love. It wasn't perfect, but neither were the others mentioned here.

I like all of these things too, but it's not going to matter much when the group of people who prefer these types of games don't seem to turn out in big enough numbers to maintain a non-F2P game.

Posted: Jan 19th 2012 3:51AM UnSub said

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@Softserve At lot of people like the sandbox system in theory, but shy away from it as implemented.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2012 10:45AM Goronmon said

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@Softserve

I actually put some time into Fallen Earth a while back. It was an interesting game, but at the time was very, very rough to play. The visuals were passable but not good, gameplay was pretty darn clunky, but the open world was cool. I think the main issue was that the style of game (open world shooter) was a bit on the ambitious size for the company. It's just really hard to make a MMO that is also a shooter.

I didn't last very long in the game. But then you take TOR. I couldn't help myself and ended up buying it soon after release. Played it for a bit, made some alts, hit level 20 on my Bounty Hunter, and I've already canceled my sub and will be letting it expire after just the first month. I quickly felt like I was just playing through WoW again. (which was a game I played for a long, long time). The dialog options and class quests were definitely interesting, and they probably are the main reason I even kept playing until level 20. But the style of game that TOR is just can't keep me interested for very long anymore, it's too much like previous games. And when you have put literally thousands of hours into a similar game in the past, being like an older game is a serious issue (whereas a game like Call of Duty, it's hard for me to get sick of the campaign portions when they last under 10 hours each).

I just wish the people who criticized those they feel are too negative towards MMOs would stop bringing up false reasons that people prefer the older games. While doing corpse runs in AC back in the day were definitely both frustrating, they were also exciting in many ways and added a certain character to the game. However, I definitely don't look back on that specific feature hoping that a new game implements it. So it's frustrating when I see posts like "People who prefer older games just want shitty corpse runs back in MMOs, which are stupid, so they are stupid." I don't want corpse runs. What I want is being able to log into the game and not have a pre-defined quest line and zone progression laid out for me from the start.

Maybe I want to be able to explore the "tougher" areas of the game early and have mechanisms to survie. In AC, a character with speed and some high level buffs could run around the scarier areas (the Direlands) and with some luck survive. I could just pick a direction and explore and look for cool things. I could decide to focus on taking out an olthoi even if I was still technically a low level character and would likely get murdered.

What I would love to see in an MMO is a game where you and other players have to settle a "new world". Build up towns, fight off monsters (and not in a 'they respawn at points A through B, kill 10' kind of way. Maybe even make it so that it's possible for the world to be "destroyed" and restart.

Do I think such a game would be as popular as WoW? Maybe not, but it could potentially be as popular as EVE, and that game is doing pretty well.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 10:59PM (Unverified) said

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Look, there is a reason that a new MMO player like myself is in WoW and not EQII. I have a bit of a pang about never playing SWG, that's true. But right now, honestly you sound a bit like someone who still keeps up the card catalog at a library--they have computers for that now, and no one will ever learn to use a card catalog again. I never did.

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:29PM Yukon Sam said

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If you don't like negative reviews, don't read negative reviews.

Problem solved. Let's have pie.

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