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Reader Comments (136)

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:51PM Buhallin said

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"I prefer my '65 Mustang to the '12 model. The former is faster, sexier, and cheaper to maintain and modify. I'm not looking at cars through rose-colored glasses; I'm assigning a personal value judgment to one set of features over another."

Faster, 0-60:
1965 Mustang GT: 7.5 seconds
2011 Mustang GT: 4.8 seconds

Cheaper, Gas Mileage:
1965 Mustang GT: 14-18 mpg
2011 Mustang GT: 26/17 Highway/City

I looked for details on the average cost of maintenance, but couldn't find anything, but I'm willing to bet Jef didn't have any actual info on it either.

"Sexier" is obviously subjective, but I find it pretty hilarious that the example analogy for "Newer isn't better!" shows that for several of the features listed, newer actually IS better.

Rose-colored glasses indeed.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:58PM Jef Reahard said

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@Buhallin

Oh, Buhallin, how I look forward to your attempts at correcting all of my articles, lol.

You're right, my '65 is bone stock. Haven't upgraded it with dual carbs, exhaust, and a dozen other things. If you really want to, you can run the numbers on tinkering and racing mods with the '65 model vs. the '12 model. I'll even give you the list of parts I used!

Or you could realize that in my personal case, it is cheaper, faster, and more enjoyable.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:24PM Buhallin said

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@Jef Reahard Well, in that case Jef, my apologies - your example was indeed a perfect analogy. Maybe a bit more perfect than you realized, honestly.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:55PM Tethadam said

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The problem is that games just like movies and any other form of popular enetertainment are made to make money. As such they will always go after the largest target demographic that they can in order to make the most profit.

That means that the smaller demographics that enjoy sandbox and those game-play elements get left behind.

Its simply math.

Now there are exceptions to the rule, yet they are mostly indie games(A Tale in the Desert) or they are games that have a entrenched player-base(EVE).

Major games publishers will never try and make a game that does not have a large enough target demographic anymore. That is a thing of the past. Unless you can get major funding as a indie developer then you are forced toward the path of least resistance and most subscribers as a developers.

Now I understand what you enjoy and what many of the people who like to trash the current gen of MMO's enjoy. But there is no magical hidden majority of sandbox lovers or old school MMO players. The current populations of players that play and enjoy the current generation of content far exceeds the total number of players that played UO, DoAC, EQ, AO, and SWG all rolled together in their prime with their largest total subbed user base.

That is simply the truth, yet rather than see that the market has moved away from what you enjoy you act like its a trend that will go away. Its not going to go away. It is here to stay so either you adapt or you will continue to hate the genre you profess to love so much.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:59PM Dumac said

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Sarcasm is always such a lovely substitute for actual arguments...

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:59PM Dumac said

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Comment fail :( Was meant for Joshua Przygocki
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 5:31PM Joshua Przygocki said

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@Dumac I was totally NOT being sarcastic... Gosh...

Just an attention grabber, not trying to argue.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:10PM (Unverified) said

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"It's not so fantastic, though, for people who prefer the Star Wars Galaxies approach to a Star Wars MMO (or more broadly, the player-driven virtual world to the dev-driven advancement game). These people have basically had their cup of Ben & Jerry's snatched away and replaced with a cup of broccoli, and frankly it would be a little bizarre if they didn't complain, loudly and often."

You mean the same people who were telling the Pre-NGE folk to shut the fuck up and get over it?

Oh the irony.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 5:08PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

LOL - can't dispute this point, though I loved SWG in all its incarnations, from 2003 right until the bitter end.

I'll tell you this, though. The NGE was in 2005 - six years ago and change. If I am still bitching about TOR in six years (and I suppose it is possible), please feel free to tell me to stfu.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:16PM (Unverified) said

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When it comes down to it I think SWTOR has nothing to do with MMO's at all, its just KOTOR3 with a multiplayer feature, its for people who play single player games and want Dragon Age with lightsabers. So to lump it into the new gen and chalk the criticism up to "times they are a changin'" seems ridiculous. Bottom line, it is a crap MMO and any negative press is deserved, yet it doesn't even matter because its not designed for people who like MMO's its designed for people who like BioWare titles, clicking conversation trees and having romances with virtual waifus.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 5:00PM Lenn said

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@(Unverified) It's still an MMO, no matter how you look at it. The term MMORPG just doesn't cover one kind of game anymore. We used to think of MMO as a genre of computer games. Maybe it's time we started to divide it into subgenres.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:17PM Ehra said

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I still don't get what the point of getting angry about other games catering to players that aren't me is. I started MMOs with Dark Age of Camelot. I still enjoy the game and it does a lot of things right that newer games still haven't figured out for whatever reason. The thing is; instead of getting upset that newer games coming out aren't Dark Age of Camelot, I just resubscribe to Dark Age of Camelot when I start getting nostalgic. And I don't stay subscribed to it because there are also things that newer games have done that I start to miss when playing the older games (like UIs that don't hate me and everyone I love).

Obviously the game's going to get shut down sometime, but once that happens I'm sure I'll be able to find something else that's similar enough; just like how sandbox fans who enjoyed SWG can try out Wurm Online. Or ArcheAge. Or EVE. Or any other sandbox MMO I don't know of. They're not perfect substitutes, but nothing other than game X will ever be a perfect substitute for game X, even if the MMO industry were currently infatuated with the type of games you enjoy.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:21PM Sorithal said

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Mreh. Everyone has their opinions and their different tastes in MMOs.

And really? To me, being a critic of MMOs isn't a bad thing. Some people (especially the TOR and WoW crowds - good god) will leap on any form of criticism against their precious games, acting like their MMO is the most perfect thing to come out in history.

Imo being a critic is a good way to actually find a game that's worth the time/money. Especially as you grow older since (at least for the average working adult, I'd assume) your time/money is more valuable, and I personally don't like wasting money on a game I feel isn't worth it.

But this gets back to the opinion thing again I suppose. I just find it funny how some people think opinions of criticism = trolling/hating/flaming right off the bat.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:42PM Beltyra said

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@Sorithal
I think you misinterpret a fans defense as a fan saying it's perfect, and them just saying to not write off the ENTIRE game just because your textures didn't load in fast enough, or this one feature isn't your cup of tea. People have been SO quick to write off TOR as a whole for tiny tiny reasons and completely ignore, or give credit, to the things it's done right.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 9:32PM Daeths said

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@Beltyra but theres difference between defense and some of the attacks ive seen against that which is perceived to be too anti-TOR
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:23PM Vandal said

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You keep making a point of progress. Progress only happens when you are willing to **let go of the past**. You may prefer your '65 car but that doesn't mean the auto industry should go back to 1960's technology that was less safe, less efficient and more polluting, no matter how cool you think your old car is. The same applies to MMOs.

MMOs are evolving. Developers are finally taking a long, hard look at traditional MMO mechanics and coming to the realization that those old mechanics were seriously wanting when it comes to providing entertaining gameplay. Which is why MMOs were stuck in a niche market for years.

Maybe MMOs not evolving in the way you want. Welcome to the free market. Popular products make money, less popular one do not and get left behind.

Perhaps the market can provide options for people who want that old-school gameplay in an MMO. That's fine, there is a market for collectors of gas-guzzling muscle cars. But don't try to claim that is any kind of progress. That is nostalgia, that is falling back on old, out-dated ideas and deliberately ignoring progress. And the MMO industry will fall into another decade of stagnation if companies start doing that.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:26PM (Unverified) said

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"I don't know if the blogosphere has taken a turn toward the negative, but if so, there's a pretty simple explanation for it"

No, negativity creates attention. Also, many of the current bloggers are like many of the current players; unrealistic expectations from the technology, and no real desire to play a game. They just want the rewards.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:30PM Celtar said

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Gotta go pick up one of my kids, but just wanted to say that I agree with your whole article. Which means I can't pick at anything or say "Oh Jef you went for the obvious troll effect!" Good read honestly. :)

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 4:30PM Beltyra said

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I was 2 or 3 paragraphs in and thought "Oh, this has to be a Jef article"...

Sure 'nuff.

I gotta stop getting trolled into reading his stuff.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 9:43PM Daeths said

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@Beltyra So the idea that we all dont have to like the same thing and that we should be able to state our opinions is a troll? If we never say we dont like some thing and that we would prefer something else well only ever get the same thing
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