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Reader Comments (46)

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 9:45AM rebelyankee said

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I don't mind need before greed. In most games, there's a token system as well and everyone gets that. The downside to the nbg system is when you need to augment token items with heroic or hard mode instances. Then it becomes and "oh crap, I hope that stupid shaman doesn't roll on that leather piece" kind of thing - which happens far too often.
In general, as I enjoy membership in a fairy large guild spanning multiple games, I get to run with guildies almost entirely. I feel spoiled in that regard.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 9:49AM Jeromai said

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No, I think the whole need/greed system is ridiculous, breaks immersion with the constant popups and dice rolling where you have to look away from the action to stare at stats and calculate whether you should need or greed in under a few seconds, and prone to cause unnecessary drama and player negativity / hostility towards each other.

It is totally within developer control to design the many flaws out of this system, and it boggles me when they don't bother - the only valid reason is if they're intending to ape WoW so the bulk of their audience feels at home.

If items really should go to people who can use it on the character they're playing now, then disable the ability of other classes to roll need on it. Leaving it on is just setting up potential ninja-looting situations. If you're going all the way down the need/greed route, tighten the itemization so that loot is class-separated, plate-armored warriors have no business needing cloth armor, etc.

Heck, why even make the players click a button to roll, it's a carryover from the times people in Everquest and MUDS before that typed "/roll" because they wanted to divide the loot randomly, just roll it automatically and assign the loot.

I much prefer the systems of Guild Wars and City of Heroes. Loot automatically assigned as yours. CoH didn't even let you see other people's loot, so you can't automatically crave it or start begging for it. Then there's token system loot where you steadily earn a currency till you can spend it. All much fairer.

All need/greed systems do is benefit the party that doesn't play by the "rules" or guidelines and rolls need on everything. I witnessed the utter extreme of this in Aion on the Oceanic server where a very obvious Chinese gold farming guild was playing and ninja looting everything. Everything. Crafting mats and all. It got to be so absurd that it was hilarious, especially since the five of them were actually very -good-, possibly because they were so kitted out in the spoils of their 'need'ing. Ended up playing along in a few of their giant teams just to see the sights and take down the world bosses, resigning myself to never seeing a chance at any loot.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 9:49AM DeadlyAccurate said

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I prefer round-robin. I don't like Need before Greed. I rarely group with people I don't personally know IRL, but when I do, I always wonder if I'm getting cheated by some jerk who always rolls Need even though they obviously don't, because I'm playing fairly and choosing Greed. I end up not doing group content just so I don't have the stress of worrying about it.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 9:54AM (Unverified) said

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Im not a fan of loot. I dont play to get some random drop that everyone else will eventually get and ill outlevel in 30 mins.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 10:00AM The Ogre said

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Evil method of loot distribution, almost as bad as a loot master system. Give me GW's random assignments or CoH's "everyone gets a roll for loot and it doesn't matter what the others do or get" system (but not their horribly broken "participation" system to determine your level of reward, which managed to drive me away from the game, added for the endgame raids).

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 12:51PM Meagen said

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@The Ogre Participation in the Incarnate raids doesn't determine your level of reward - it's only designed to give you a booby prize if you afk the whole time. (Sadly, it will also kick in if you crash and have to reconnect/rejoin one time too many, especially in very short trials like speed Lambda.)
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 10:47AM Nidrew said

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Need before greed is my default choice on all games that have that setting, coin is never a consideration when I roll because I play the game because I enjoy it...not because I want to have the most money. And if I see something that another one of my characters can use, I'll ask before needing it.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 11:47AM BaronJuJu said

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Personally I'm not a fan of Need or Greed. Folks in PUG's I've participated usually just hit "Need" the entire time and infighting usually follows. They need to just turn the system into a "Bid or Pass" model. You either try for it or you don't.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 11:55AM dndhatcher said

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It is fair for everyone who participated to get a roll at the loot.

How did "need" ever get added as a consideration? Unless gear is character bound on acquire, it doesnt make sense.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 12:47PM Daeths said

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@dndhatcher A warrior having the same chance of getting a two handed axe over a mage that cant use it, even if its BoE, is fair?
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 1:12PM dndhatcher said

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@Daeths Absolutely. The mage can turn around and sell that axe and use that money to buy a staff he wants. Maybe the mage has an alt warrior that would use the axe. Maybe the mage would turn around and give the axe to some warrior in the group as a gift. As long as its not bound so it becomes vendor trash, he has earned the right to roll on it by participating in the battle.

I do not understand where the selfish "gear dropped that I can equip so you dont deserve anything" attitude came from. You help kill it, you get a share of the loot. That is simple and fair.

Do you not see the problem with need loot? Suppose we have a boss mob in the forest that drops a really awesome bow. Since only hunters can use bows, no one else has any incentive to farm the boss. Whats fair for the healer and tank you need to help you farm the boss? In a guild/kinship/tribe of friends you have some loyalty and expectation of reciprication. In a PuG it is a completely non-viable loot method.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 12:42PM Gryphmon said

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Need or Greed brings out the worst in player behavior. The overwhelming number of negative experiences I've had in WoW have been as a direct result of that system.

A much better system is one that takes the player of the equation. Does it reduce player choice? Yes. And thats a good thing because when it comes to loot, players are jerks.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 12:45PM Daeths said

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I hate NvG if it doesn't lock out players who cant use the item from rolling need. If that's in place it tolerable, but you still have to put up with people having a better item in the slot rolling for the gold

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 1:19PM dndhatcher said

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@Daeths You deserve the item more than someone else because your gear is worse than theirs? New players and and players that dont spend hours grinding gear are more deserving of loot than veteran players and well equipped players? Thats nonsense.

Gear drops belong to the party, not the worst equipped party member that can use it.

Maybe everyone should just buy dropped gear and then the gold is distributed to everyone who participated in the fight.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:17PM (Unverified) said

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@dndhatcher

While I am in complete agreement w/you in regards to NBG looting, it began in games where loot was hard to get, and used for many levels. Everyone wanted to see it used by someone who could use it, because another piece might never be found by a player. Now, with games shoving loot down our throats, and loot being obsolete in 1 level, NBG is not needed.
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 12:54PM (Unverified) said

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In PUG's, Need before Greed never works because everyone just chooses NEED and at the end of the dungeon, only one players gets all the rewards . It takes only one player to ruin the run. KIck the player and wait 30 more minutes to replace the member? Sure, go ahead if you have the time - most don't want to wait around doing nothing. In the end and in any group, you'll be fighting over who get what items and there will always be one player unhappy that they were never given the chance to get an item.

My favorite loot system is from Diablo/Mythos. "What you see is what you get".

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 1:19PM Daemodand said

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I greatly prefer the way City of Heroes Freedom does it: it just gives each person what they need. No contesting, no bickering, just happy players.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 1:38PM Daeths said

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So explain to me why some one deserves a tiny amount of gold more than a person who actually needs the item? Almost all drops that go through NvG are BOP and can only be vendored for a pittance. They don't actually need the item, they just want that 1g so they can collect 999 more to buy that one decent item that they aren't even grinding for yet. Its called Need and unless your going to equip the item and use it you don't really need it
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 1:22PM Lumin said

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Round robin most definitely. NbG is just a formula for disaster. It's easily trolled, easily manipulated, and easily results in hard feelings. It drives a group apart faster than you can say 'ninja.'

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 3:31PM Ken from Chicago said

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Hi, Rubi, yes, Need Before Greed is EVIL! It's a totally evil game mechanic. Yes, if players were cordial enough to use the system properly then the mechanic is extraneous and everyone could just grab any item of loot and share appropriately.

As a commentor already mentioned, clearly the mechanic is designed to slow down gearing up and / or get people to play longer in aggravating ways (akin to missions where you have to double-back, ugh).

Yes, GW's round robin where loot is assigned to everyone round the board--with the final boss uberloot being: 1) duplicated for all 2) giving everyone a chance to pull from a treasure chest or 3) giving everyone a token and they can choose which kind of uberloot to trade for it from special uberloot vendors. ArenaNet rocks in solving MMO problems and greasing the friction that could arise from the multiplayer part of MMOs.

Oh and yes, ArenaNet's MMO cousins, by way of NCSoft, the good folks at Paragon Studios also have a round robin where loot is just randomly assigned to players around the board. It just appears in your inventory and no one else is the wise. No sour grapes, no hard feelings, no muss no fuss.

-- Ken from Chicago

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