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Reader Comments (137)

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:23PM Deadalon said

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@(Unverified)

I have a 1 year pass in WOW and have been playing since Vanilla.

My point has nothing to do my stance against anything other than allowing 12 year old kids to play on the same account system as ppl that are trading with real life money. Thats simply unacceptable in my book.

I support good games. But I do not support games that come out with such bull as that RMAH is put ingame to protect players. Just because 1% of the entire Diablo 2 playerbase bought black market virtual items does not justify opening up Real money trading for 100% of the Diablo 3 players. Its a blatant lie to claim its good for anyone. It just creates new markets for farmers and virtual trading cause more ppl now do it than ever before.

Let games be games. And games have nothing to do with real money trading. Thats gambling - thats buisness - and thats black market in its current form of Diablo 3 RMAH.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 9:00PM Sorithal said

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Wowinsider is that way ->
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:15PM Noachievement4u said

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Why can't people understand?

http://bit.ly/AjULNx

Argh.. -,-''

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:29PM Deadalon said

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@Noachievement4u

Sooo... its not black market if its allowed on the internet ? lol ... get a clue.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:31PM Deadalon said

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And also get a clue that RMAH is black market trading just as much as those websites are. Only thing changing is that BLizzard allows that to happen. That does not mean that laws and governments do tho. As you might have just found out in this news topic...
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:42PM comps said

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@Deadalon you keep on talking about getting a clue but seem to have no understanding of what a black market actually is.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:46PM Deadalon said

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@comps

Oh really - Go and find out what it means maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:51PM comps said

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@Deadalon not very good at reading comments either.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:00PM Deadalon said

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@comps

And your argument about this news topic is what ? Or just Trolling?

Selling Virtual items is part of the black market where ppl are selling items that they a) have not right to sell or b) are hiding income of the trades to get a full cut instead of paying taxes.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:12PM Deadalon said

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Also might be intresting for you to see what Massively tags as Black market. Since we are on their website

http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/black-market/
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:14PM comps said

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@Deadalon

a) they do have a right to sell, blizzard are giving them that right.
b) people declaring taxes has nothing to do with a black market although the two can be often seen as one issue they are quite separate. if it were the case then Ebay would have been declared a black market long ago and shut down.
c) telling you that you are wrong is not trolling.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:54PM Deadalon said

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@comps

Blizzard is allowing everyone to sell their virtual Diablo 3 items. That means we will have Black Market internet websites selling items that are cheaper than what are ingame. Why ? Because 10% will be cut of - the money that BLizzard was gonna take. Thats still black market trading.

b) ebby has long history of virtual iitem trading. Not only in games. And no ..... Ebay is not black market buisness because they are legally bound to send in lists of trades. Many selllers (specially the higher prices ) are are then contected by their local authorities to pay income tax of those sales.

c) Claiming that some1 is wrong - does not make you right.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 9:14PM comps said

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@Deadalon

you claimed the rmah itself would be the black market. you was incorrect on that point, give it up.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 12:33AM Noachievement4u said

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@Deadalon

Okay, I am sorry. I should have clarified my point of view in this issue...

I was trying to point out that even without RMAH at all in the game (not just in Korea), people would still find a way to pay real money for gear

Diablo is not like WoW where you can band-aid the problem with "soulbound" gear and items

My point is that Blizz is in a lose/lose situation here.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 6:21AM Deadalon said

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@Noachievement4u

Im also gonna clarify this abit more. Its very diffrent to see 1-2% of the netire Diablo 3 population use black market websites to buy items than to open it up for 100% of the playerbase. Justifying this sort of thing is not acceptable just because few % do it.

RMAH in Diablo will more than likely change the way ppl think about buying virtual items - not just in Diablo - but every game. This will just strengthen the black market dealings even further. More website will be created that sell these items and more ppl overall will be cheated out of money.

Let me explain what I mean by black market here since some ppl seems to be totally unable to understand the concept. There are organised criminal groups that use many diffrent souces to gain illegal money. One is for example to obtain creditcard information and virtal item selling has been the main source of this for a very long time. These creditcardnumbers are then used in for example gambling websites - whitewashing it with money laundering by loosing it to another account on purpose. This is the main reason why some of the biggest poker sites were banned last year for playing with real money.

Now - here is how Blizzard and Diablo 3 will become part of the black market in much more serious way than even the gambling sites. Creditcard number is stolen - a very expensive item is bought in Diablo 3 on that creditcard. That item is then sold few times whitewashing the money trace. And this is all done DIRECTLY between 2 players ingame and Blizzard has ZERO involvment in it. You transfer money directly between paypal accounts and can bypass the battlenet system. So when an item is bought with stolen creditcards there is no way to get that money refunded cause its 3rd party dealings.

This is PART of the big black market operations in the world. Many of the same groups have many forms of trading and other illegal oporations like drug dealings and prostitution. This is the real world we live in. Even tho some morons dont quite understand what Black market stands for when it comes to virtual item selling.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 9:48PM stebtr said

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For those arguing about gambling and how other games with jackpots have been banned before due to generating addicts, etc. - I'd like you to consider why regulations are placed on gambling in the first place.

Gambling has negative effects on society and thus became regulated by governments because incomes were being blown in the name of chance leading to depression, crimes, and other destructive.

In Diablo III, real-life incomes will not be blown causing disaster on society. If you or other governments want to nitpick the wording of gambling provisions and argue that it's too similar to be considered legal, that's fine. I just hope you understand the intent behind gambling law more than the words on paper.

This genre of MMO / ARPG gaming certainly creates addicts, and you could argue that the time investment / addiction alone is a detriment on society. But if you believe that, that's the case for many hobbies, and the "gambling" aspect of the real-money auction house in D3 contributes negligible harm.

TL;DR - Paychecks won't be blown in RMT of D3 in the hopes of becoming rich. It might be close to falling under gambling law depending on definition. But none of the harmful societal effects that gambling laws are designed to prevent are present in D3.

Posted: Jan 14th 2012 6:29AM Deadalon said

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@stebtr

I got one question for you. The money that goes into Diablo 3 RMAH needs to be SPENT in the first place. Some1 has to buy an item for real money to create the market. You can not sell an item if there is no real money in the jackpot. The real money comes from somewhere. That includes ppl paying money for auctioning items in the first place. Others will buy items directly with real money. This jackpot will get bigger and bigger and more and more ppl will get drawn into it.

The negative effect of THIS sort of gambling is exactly the same. It has exaclty the same negative effects on society cause it creates addicts. This has been going on in Asia for the last 10 years and governments over there have taken measure to ban this sort of games there.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 9:52AM Scullz said

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@stebtr

THIS +1.

Besides, this is fucking america.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 6:37PM stebtr said

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@Deadalon Just as you and I know there's different tax regulations across the world, I'm sure that Blizzard is aware as well, and that the third party payment service that handles "cash out" transactions across the world (except South Korea) will legally be responsible for adhering to all applicable laws. This is why I believe Blizzard isn't taking on that complicated responsibility themselves but rather outsourcing to established payment services.

Blizzard has acknowledged the "black market" dealings in the past with Diablo II, but they by no means endorse direct real-money trades between players. Yes it's true that those dealings will exist, just as they always have, but there's no doubt in my mind that the presence of the official and legal RMAH will take business away from outside third party sellers (even if they're able to offer cheaper prices). The RMAH will significant reduce what the black market will have become without it.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 6:56PM stebtr said

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@Deadalon Of course real money will change hands and build up the market. You don't sell product without a buyer - whether the product is a physical item, virtual item, paid service, or whatever the case may be.

Your argument that because buyers exist putting money into a market that grows due to more people coming in over time somehow makes the "jackpot" (size of the market?) bigger, and causes individual transactions to be defined as gambling is ludicrous.. I guess every new market that's started small and grown large has involved gambling.
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