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Reader Comments (137)

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:04PM Nenene said

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So what would it take to make this a world-wide thing?

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:08PM (Unverified) said

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@Nenene Yeah really. I wouldn't mind playing the Korean version at this point.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:37PM fallwind said

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@Nenene contact your local lawmaker / game rating board / gambling board and have them take a look at the legality of a game for kids (IE: less than 18+ rating) involving what is basically gambling.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:55PM Maseno said

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@fallwind

How is a real money auction house even close to gambling?

Seriously, people need to get the f*** over this. I think it will actually do the game a ton of good and cut out a lot of the RMT companies that destroy games. It will also give random people a chance to either a) buy gear they can't normally attain, or b) sell items and make some real life money.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 5:06PM NeverDeath said

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@Nenene

100% agreed. They're willing to appease Korea, let's see if they're willing to appease the US and Europe by eliminating this terrible money-grubbing feature.

I'll admit, the RMT AH totally killed my interest in Diablo III, single-handedly. If they removed this terrible system, I would instead buy the game when it comes out as I had originally planned to years ago. Anyone who thinks I'm blowing the feature out of proportion clearly doesn't understand that it's basically a pay-to-win system that allows people to hand over cash to buy power, making any kind of open games a potential breeding ground for poor players with deep pockets to win via unjust means.

I'm pulling for the removal of the system from all versions, not just the Korean.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 6:03PM Zyrusticae said

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@Maseno

It's actually marginally related to gambling because the items you're selling come explicitly from RNG, that is to say, a random number generator. It's all random chance whether or not you get an item that is actually valuable on the market, and someone can probably strike a good haul just from getting lucky on the RNG.

However, since no money is put into the system in order to generate these items, it is definitely not the same thing as gambling. But the element of randomness is there...
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 6:08PM Deadalon said

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@Zyrusticae

Sorry m8 - but there IS real money put into every auction if its bought.

Secondly... You can not buy an item if you dont have money to start with. So someone will have to spend real money to buy. Its playing with real money and that is gambling.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 6:23PM Space Cobra said

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@Zyrusticae @Deadalon

Deadlon's right because, remember, you can farm items, hope for a rare one, place it on the Auction House and collect what is basically money for it, either via PayPal or in-game credits.

Random Number Generators PLUS the ability to cash out in some way that either is money or mimics money. That is pretty close to gambling and how certain online sites (and offline ones) skirt the legalities of certain predefinded notions of gambling within the law.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 6:57PM (Unverified) said

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@Space Cobra

of course it is NOT gambling.

Gambling requires money to invest BEFORE you can gain something.

That's not the case in Diablo 3.

You don't invest anything: you just PLAY after acquiring the game.

NO money to spend to fill the slot machine. Not even a fixed fee to publish on the AH as you get a fixed amount for free.

It is simply ridiculous to consider this as a gamble.

Be happy for once players can actually EARN money by playing a video game.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:34PM Space Cobra said

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@(Unverified)

You don't understand the WHOLE definition of gambling; it is not just "placing money" or "investing money", it is investing ANYTHING into something in the hope to get something bigger in return. And it can be MORE than that.

I can bet objects. Watches, Cars, etc. But, let's focus more on just what this is: Right now, in the United States, you can go to parties; they tend to be company-sponsored affairs and you can gamble at them. You don't have to put anything down, because that would be "illegal", but you get a chance to spin a wheel or draw a card and win a prize.

Just that: The hope of getting something *bigger* than what you put in, which could be a raffle ticket or it could just be your time, for the *chance to win* something bigger, THAT is gambling.

Hoping for a Gold-Rare drop for the chance to place it on the marketplace. You are investing time. You are "flipping that slot machine arm over and over" in the same sense your are grinding/farming the same monster because they have a chance to drop something....and then you sell it, if you get "Lucky" of getting the drop.

THAT is gambling.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 3:11AM jslim419 said

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@Zyrusticae your not spending money each time the RNG decides what loot you will get. it's not gambling.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 3:13AM jslim419 said

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@Space Cobra

with that logic everything is gambling then. we should ban everything to stop people from gambling.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 12:50PM ShivanSwordsman said

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@Nenene You do realize that it's being torn at for a broadened load that has nothing to do with the current systems? Just because you don't like the RMT House doesn't mean it should be banned for this. If you ban it, ban it for common sense. Currently Korea has SEVERAL games that run off gambling, such as Gachapon machines in several free games, like SDGO, among others.

Meanwhile, this ISN'T gambling. You click on an item, bid for it, buy it, yay, you win. Now all the bot farmers and hackers are going to play the US version... bloody hell...
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 8:45PM (Unverified) said

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@Nenene

Actually, from what i read in one of these articles, we aren't technically getting $ back from this new AH. How its supposed to work is you buy some kind of battle.net points from their thing and use that in the AH if not gold. As far as I know, there is no way to turn those points back into $.

Now, whether those points can be traded between players or not, I have no clue. If they can, then it will make no difference: post it online and see if anyone is willing to risk trading.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2012 6:34AM Space Cobra said

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@jslim419

Gambling has a legal definition and it is ironic that you allude to it in this statement:

"your not spending money each time the RNG decides what loot you will get. it's not gambling."

Again, anything you invest that has value, from your life, to your time, is something you put in. But let's get away from that point and concentrate on RNG.

You say RNG decides what loot you get. RNG also is used in Vegas and decides the probability of winnings. In Diablo's case, it would be the drops. While such a thing is federally regulated, the odds can be manipulated, even in a game of BlackJack. The House likes things to their benefit. The key thing is that the RNG can be controlled and federal laws are there to stop it.

But there have been patches from Blizzard and other companies, about their drop/loot-rates, haven't there? Sometimes, these get adjusted because something is not dropping often enough or whatever. And, by virtue of classes or rarity, or perceived unequal value, some items are more desirable than others. So, really, Blizzard, and other companies, can and DO control their RNG. There is always a "chance" to get something better and wait for that Gold/Legendary drop. You just have to keep at it. If all items were equal, this would not be an issue .
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Posted: Jan 17th 2012 10:25PM (Unverified) said

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Vegas most certainly does not use RNG. If they did then the house could not control their losses. Vegas knows exactly the odds for all of the games the casinos produce and they are all gamed to provide a profit to the casino over time. This is true of any gambling operation, including lotteries and those semi legal slot machines in the corner of your local bar.

Seeing as how Blizz isn't going to make a cut from the RMAs and I am pretty sure a very low percentage of people are willing to spend more than pocket change on pixel gear, I don't see how you can compare this to gambling and all of it's perceived ills. Gambling addictions ruin lives. Equating a video game with a pay component to a physiological addiction is at best ill thought out, but more likely a bald faced attempt at censorship through fear mongering.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2012 11:16AM Space Cobra said

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@(Unverified)

While it is true that Vegas does not use a true Random system, they still use a system of probabilities that, as you say, favor the house. Such a system is FEDERALLY REGULATED with every slot machine vendor for a reason and levels of probability are given to specific wins that are "fair and within reason" of mandated lists. For example, it would be illegal for the house to make the odds 0% to win the big jackpot. That is, if the House is caught doing that. Such manipulation of an RNG is under the watchful eye of the government for such fairness, although "fairness" is open to interpretation. And don't forget, Blizzard does control the drop-rates of items, all MMOs do, otherwise, there would be no "rares" of any sort: the odss would be even for all.

Whether Blizzard takes a "cut" of this or not is beside the point, it is offering this system to players and it is the players that will use/abuse the system in various ways. You say that only a limited number of people will spend more than "pocket change" on pixel gear, but you would be very _wrong_. This is how f2p operates, relying on a low percentage of people to buy many of the things. The problem with this system is several-fold and relies on some of the same hooks one would have for gambling. While you and even I may feel whatever happens to someone else is their business, mixing a game like Diablo 3 with such a system is a bit amoral in my view.

The fact people have grinded drops to get certain ones in current games is still there add to that the promise of a "cash option" or "near cash" and people will be treating killing monsters like pulling a one-armed slot machine, because they could sell the rares for higher money. That sets up "gambling" in many people's eyes and it certainly looks like the Korean government agrees with this.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:10PM (Unverified) said

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RMT is just plain unhealth, and it kills a game. Pay to win is for losers.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:13PM Saerain said

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@(Unverified) It takes money out of the hands of those with evidently too much, and gives it to those with probably too little. I'm OK with this.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:37PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

As has been stated a multitude of times, this is not pay to win in the sense that everyone is complaining about.

1. Blizzard is not selling gear. Players are.
2. Blizzard is facilitating the sale of gear because:
A. It was going to happen anyway, so:
I. Why not take a small slice of that pie?
II. Now players won't get scammed.
B. Players want it, plain and simple.
3. This does not have to affect you in the least bit, unless you PVP.

The vocal minority may not want it, but the vast number of people that used "Forum Gold" on D2 will love this feature.
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