| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (238)

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:06PM jelly jedi said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
Strong with the dark side these critics are...but not strong enough

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:32PM Maseno said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@jelly jedi

You mean strong with the truth?
Reply

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 12:16AM kalipou134 said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@jelly jeswtor DID strong on the innovation as far as making a fully voiced MMO with the kotor convo system.

But is it enough to compensate for the obvious lack of crucial mmo features like Macros, Dungeon Finder, Weapon preview, Armor coloring, Barbershops, Guild interface, Addon support

The list goes on and on.

SWTOR as is right now is only a 7/10 in my book, and that number will go down if in 6 months the above hasn't been adressed.
Reply

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 8:49PM bullshitexpresscom said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified) There is nothing wrong with using the best that Blizz had to offer in their game. Maybe you'd prefer BW not use that innovative "color" thing that Blizz uses.
Reply

Posted: Jan 18th 2012 12:07AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@kalipou134 Macros and Dungeon Finders are for lazy gamers. Blizzard really spoiled people in WoW and since WoW was a first mmo for many people they expect "easy mode" in every mmo they play from now on.

You Do Not Need macros to play. I've raided and pvp'd in games from EQ1 all the way up to SWTOR and never once "had" to use a macro to be able to play.

Why do so many whine about no Dungeon Finder? You actually don't want to have to socialize with people? The fleet is your main hub to get to the flashpoints and every character can teleport to the fleet with an innate ability they get at level 10. Also, there are shuttles on the plants that will take you there as well. Are people seriously that Lazy that they can't click on their lfg tag, type in "LFG " and gee I dunno advertise in chat?

The problem with these people is instant gratification is taking too long.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:07PM Oranuro said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Would be better if they didn't copy WoW.

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:22PM (Unverified) said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Oranuro

Because anything that goes themepark is copying WoW, amirite?
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:36PM Mystal said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified) Anything that rips off most of the systems of WoW, from the interface to the color coding of item rarities, is a rip off of WoW. SWTOR is (apart from the story) basically WoW with lightsabers. Rift is also a WoW clone, so is Allods, WAR to an extent, and so on. The fact that there are so many WoW clones does not make them any less clones.

If you come out with some cheese that's just a mix of sharp cheddar and mild cheddar that's not innovation. If the only cheese you've ever eaten is cheddar, you won't be in a position to understand just what a variety of flavors and textures "cheese" can encompass. If you've sampled Swiss, brie, blue cheese, mozzarella, Colby, Parmesan, cream cheese, etc, you'll understand intuitively that another subtle variation on cheddar isn't that that revolutionary.

People who look at SWTOR and see WoW are those who have actually played a lot of other MMOs and understand just how much variation there can be. Those who see SWTOR and see it as the inevitable form for an MMO to take are those who have little imagination or experience outside of the narrow range of WoW clones.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:48PM vekien said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mystal ummm you are missing the point, it isnt that SWTOR copied WoW, it is the fact that people say "WoW Clone" when WoW is a clone itself, its a EQ clone lol, infact its a clone of many games before it, but just because its such a big thing people have to state it.

Like McDonalds...
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:54PM edgecrusherO0 said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Monkey D Luffy

That's your opinion that it didn't improve on anything or pull the best parts though. Sure it didn't improve on everything (it's difficult to improve on everything that a game has built up over the course of a decade), but it did take some areas and make them better (voice acting and story focus, tradeskills and some others).

I bring it up because people call it a WoW clone as if 1. that's an insult and 2. as if WoW is entirely original. I get sick of seeing it, and most of the people who I've talked to who use the term, either don't know what EQ is or can't grasp the concept that WoW drew heavily from EQ.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 5:55PM RiVenoX said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mystal i've played EQ, DAoC, CoH, Eve, GW, WoW, WAR, Rift, and probably a couple of others. It's not a WoW clone.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:01PM (Unverified) said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@vekien

LOL? Umm, really? WoW is nothing like EQ. It is true that EQ2 (and perhaps maybe even EQ at this point) have adopted elements FROM WoW, but hardly vice versa. Have you even played both games?
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:05PM pid said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mystal COME ON! that's silly. Color coding? That's around since the 1980 with many examples on the Amiga 500. We're even not talking PC games anymore... Really, there was NO innovation in WoW on the UI front. Now you can agree or not, but facts cannot be undone.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:07PM (Unverified) said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@vekien and @edgecrusherO0
To say that WoW is a "clone" of EQ shows that you clearly never played them both. Are they both MMO's and there's fighting with swords? Yes, and that's about where the similarities stop.

There's a lot that Blizzard brought to the table with wow when it first came out. I've seen many MMO's bring new things to the table since, for some reason, not many of them catch on with people.

BioWare brought virtually nothing to the table with SW:TOR. And here's the thing... I don't even dislike SWTOR. I actually have an active account to wow and swtor currently... and to be quite honest... I've been playing SWTOR a lot more than wow.

Back to the point though, is swtor a bad game? No. Did it basically clone wow? Yes, in a very literal meaning of the word clone. They are both good games, and I would tell anyone thinking about playing either of them to try them out. But that still doesn't mean that SWTOR was innovative. Let's be completely honest here... they ONLY thing that's new in swtor is the story thing that they brought from Mass Effect etc. and it's not even very well implemented (stupid story zones not completing multiple player's quests).
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:11PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mystal

For most people WOW was the first and only MMO in existence. People who have played many other MMOs know this isn't the case.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:22PM Rengar said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Oranuro

"It's a WoW clone." has devolved to the point of being nothing more than a troll comment, and people fall for it every single time, so I guess grats to you Mr./Ms. Oranuro.

Look, any MMORPG that is at it's heart a theme part experience is going to have some, and likely very many similarities to WoW. The simple fact of the matter is that WoW was a popular game that appeals to a wide range of games. It's only natural for companies to try an Emulate and improve on that formula.

The point of the interview was the game makes small innovations not large ones for the genre. This, while acceptable in other types of games or in other industries altogether seems to come across from a very vocal forum posting, news commenting, user reviewing community as completely unacceptable. Innovation doesn't need to be world defining to be considered innovation and SWTOR does do some things we haven't seem before, and others that are still rare in the genre.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:23PM Vgk said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:26PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mystal Everything is a WoW clone... oh wait, not everything. WoW "was" a beefed up EQ clone when it was originally released.

SWTOR itself is a mediocre game based on the biggest IP the world has seen since the Holy Bible. It is going to have its detractors and its champions. I personally think the game is an average single player RPG and a horrible MMORPG mixed together. The story is awesome until it isn't. I compare it to KOTOR and ME and enjoy it, but the MMO elements are poorly done and there are a lot of gameplay issues. Does it deserve to have people rolling it a 0/10 on Metacritic, no. But to that point, the developer stance on most of what's wrong with the game comes down to "its the consumer's fault".
Q: "Why don't we have hi-res textures?"
A: "Because you can't handle it."

Q"Why is the game getting bad reviews from players?"
A"Because those players came in thinking we were remaking the wheel and we didn't."

Many many more examples in recent interviews and official forum responses. Its beyond me, how the gaming media continually lets them blame everyone but themselves.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:46PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Vgk Ha! A pretty good example. I mean sure, there's only so much design space for a warrior-type character in an MMO, but some of these abilities are literally the exact same thing.

Meanwhile, it's pretty shocking to see how bent out of shape people get when anyone accuses TOR of being a WoW clone. You can't deny there are many, many similar or identical elements.

People act like it has to be this way, that anyone designing an MMO these days has to follow the same script and Bioware would be stupid not to. If that's really the state of MMOs these days then it's a sad time indeed for fans of the genre.
Reply

Posted: Jan 12th 2012 6:49PM Kalex716 said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@vekien

WoW and pretty much all those 2nd gen MMO's were more than just EQ clones.

They took a gamble on accessibility, and it paid off. Here's an example of a feature WoW saw that was popular in EQ and chose to challenge: Camp Grins.

In EQ, you grinded camps for hours and hours in full groups. WoW said, hey lets personalize the leveling process instead, allow large portions of it to be done solo, and lets drive it, and break it up with individualized quests instead.

They did it, they were not the only ones however, but they did it arguably the best and from that day on, we no longer say "Camp check?" in zones to level anymore.

One example, HUGE change for the industry....

I would argue that quest based progression is now old and tired, like camp grinds were... SWTOR bet that they are not old and tired, and they just needed story based dressings to keep us interested.

It kinda works for some people, but others just see the same old "Kill X, click this" quest we've been doing since the mid 2000's.

People say SWTOR is making improvements, but they can't really substantiate that with specific features they're trying to evolve. Because that was never their strategy.
Reply

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW