| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (29)

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 8:10AM Maseno said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I have no will power when it comes to self-enforcing things like "perma-death". That is why I am patiently waiting for Salem to roll out. It may not be the most graphically advanced game in the world, but to me, concept/execution > graphics.

Hopefully they can pull off what they are trying to.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 8:55AM smartstep said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
No I don't.

I really can't 'convince' myself to self-impose consequences or to self-gimp myself to increase difficulty level.

Like I could for example take armor off and fight only in shirt & pants to increase difficulty cause nowadays mmorpg's are SO ridiculosely easy.
I could. I even tried. It just feel dumb.

Because I am sick & tired of streamrolling over open world content, it just result in quick boredom & me not even wanting to check most mmorpg's nowadays.

Same with death penalties. I could self-impose cropse runs on myself, or self-impose item decay on me (by deleting armor when I repair them too many times in my opinion), etc - but seriously this is dumb.

I don't play games to self-gimp myself.

Do anyone voluntarelly play with one hand to increase difficulty?

I know that mmorpg's creators are in hard position, cause whatever they choose they just will displease part of potential playerbase.

Difficulty "settings" don't work that well either. Most people will just choose best difficulty / reward ratio, besides difficulty slider mean = lot of instancing and that's bad as well.

Imho mmorpg devs , publishers and investors have to come to terms with that they cannot please everyone and have to fork their games to certain niches knowing that many players won't play their game cause it is :
a) too harsh
b) too easy-mode
c) whatever else

Another thing is to create servers with diffrent rules / difficulities - but that would also require alot more managing, dev time, diffrent patches, many rules (like np possible server transfers, etc)

Still mmorpg genre imo seem to hit a wall and "one size fits all" mmorpg design is finally dying.

That or all AAA (and not only) mmorpg's will follow same old pattern:
Lot of players at release and first weeks -> followed with dramatical decrease of playerbase in following months

That is just a result of creating game that try to cater to everyone but in effect it does not cater to anyone.

It is a) big initial playerbase that wither fast OR b) smaller but more loyal playerbase with some chance of slow growth (ala EVE)

Devs and investors : you just cannot have cake & eat it

WoW was an exception and it will NOT happen again.

Mmoprg's are not a novelity to mainstream playerbase liek they were in 2004. Accept it :)

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 9:18AM pixledriven said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@smartstep

I miss when games would release with servers different rulesets.
Reply

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 9:10AM Cyclone Jack said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
While I do not do this on all characters, I have been known to start a hardcore character from time to time. However, if I die while in a group I will continue on until the group disperses, since I would prefer not to inconvenience other players. I also try not to tell anyone that I am running a hardcore character as it either puts them in an uncomfortable position, or I get someone that intentionally tries to get the group killed.

In WoW/LotRO/GW, the character would get deleted. In CoH, I would go to the tailor and recolor everything into a bright blue/white with an aura, to give that ghostly appearance and still log in from time to time.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 9:14AM OptimusPrimeisOP said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
I did something like this with Guild Wars, but I shortly found out quickly that there are just too many pitfalls.

1. It just lends itself to "gaming" the system. I Guild Wars, I found that I would just port to town at the slightest sign of trouble, ditching my friends in the process. In other games, one could just run with a full group to quest, and eliminate most challenge from the game.

2. Games just aren't designed to be played this way. If you are going for no death, it just means that you avoid most challenging content. I had a friend that did something similar, and he wouldn't do any end game stuff because he was afraid that his character would die.

3. It is way too stressful. I found myself being picky about content that I wanted to do, and reading on wikis for easy content. In short, I wasn't enjoying the game. It really broke immersion for me as a gamer, because I would have to go and spoil most of the content on a wiki before I even tried most things, in the event that there was some random death mechanic to avoid.

Now, I like to play a character without fear of dieing. I still try to stay alive as long as possible, but I don't stress out, or avoid anything to do so. Often times, I get more enjoyment out of fighting a fight that I am sure to lose, just to see how long I can survive. This is also a great way to make sure that you are familiar with your entire move-set, and busting cooldowns at the right moments.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 9:20AM tooright said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
been telling bads to delete their characters for years , glad to see my advice has been taken to heart!

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 12:59PM Utakata said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@tooright

You know...I must admit that perma-death would significantly destroy raiding culture in WoW. That is, they could only whipe on the boss once.
Reply

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 9:29AM Dumac said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You know now that i think about it, it's really apparent how the genre has failed to evolve. WoW can boast it's phasing and TOR can yell don't forget light and dark side alignment, but when you delete your character, it's all gone, it's like he never existed, as far as the game is concerned. So instead of being realistic end to an adventurer's life, (self imposed) permadeath is a reminder of how nothing he did had any meaning or purpose, fun as it was to play. So i won't be playing pretend permadeath.

Salem, being a crafting MMO, has more potential. I don't know if it has persistence. If i build a house and get killed, will the house stay in the world? That would mean that progress is no longer tied to my character, but his accomplishments. That he had a real effect on the game, and that having him permanently gone does not mean i wasted my time. So it's not as severe as permadeath in WoW-esque games. I would imagine. Maybe it's going to be fun. Depends on everything else but permadeath, really.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 10:05AM Ceridith said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I find Perma-death as a fun gameplay mechanic until my character dies to circumstances beyond my control... be it connection issues, a game bug, or a roving gang of PKers that kills anyone and everyone for no good reason.

In other words, it's not fun for very long.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 10:29AM Thorqemada said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I did this sometimes in the 80s and 90s in SPRPGs and other games like Diablo but it simply takes to much time and at one time you will finally die bcs of some bug or by design to let you die.
Its some fun to play carefull and thoughtfull, a bigger challenge.
But with a restricted timebudget and the goal to play a game to an end its not reasonable gameplay choice - especially as games often be desgined to let you die or be absent of challenge at all.

What was the comment a guildmate in SWTOR made:
"Shit, i died of boredom again, thisgame is to fucking easy!"
(He won himself to death killing enemies in long rows forgetting to care for his lifebar)

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 12:14PM OptimusPrimeisOP said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Thorqemada

I would suggest to your friend to do things out of context. Don't follow what the game says to do. I like to try to solo group content in games, and I have found a fun challenge in it. I like to go to areas that are above my level and mess around. In SWTOR, I like to disable my companion, and see how long I can survive without any heals on a silver or gold (elite). In WoW, I would go into an instance solo, and see just how far I could make it.

If you play content as defined by developers, you will find that it has been made so accessible, that there is no challenge to be had.
Reply

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 11:04AM Khaal said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
For a video game? No. Back when I played tabletop RPGs, we always played with permadeath, but in a videogame I can't do it. One key difference is the DM. In a tabletop game you have a living person who can examine the encounter and see if death is appropriate. What I mean by that is if a character has been placed in a situation where he should not win, then the DM should decide whether or not the encounter was fair. Did he/she warn the players that they were getting in over their heads? Was the encounter designed correctly? From there the DM may decide that the encounter was fair and the character is in fact dead. If, on the other hand, the DM determines that the encounter was not fair, for whatever reason, then they have the power to rectify this by various means.

In a videogame, they don't have this, so a lot of deaths are just hard to justify. Sometimes it's just that you stepped into the wrong area or didn't understand a certain mechanic, and I'm not going to repeat many hours of play simply for a mistake. Now someone is going to ask about if I died simply out of my own bad play. As I'm already using the resurrection mechanic I simply continue to. The game is built on that mechanic and honestly the game is designed with the idea that we will die a lot, so I play with that mechanic.

Going on that, when you die in a video game you generally have to repeat a lot of content. In a tabletop with a DM you don't. A good DM will get you back into the current set of events as quickly as possible. So really, death doesn't result in a need to re-hash and grind with a tabletop like it would in a video game.

Just my personal thoughts on it.

Josh

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 11:09AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The closest thing to "hardcore mode" I get is not reading spoilers, not using combat mods and, in SWTOR, selecting dialog options *that character would chose* regardless of the expected outcome. Yes, I know this can "gimp" my character but it makes the game more immersive for *me*, the player.

There are some self-enforced permadeath guilds in LotRO that sound very interesting and, if I played that game, I would probably join them. Having the server enforce permadeath sounds like a bad idea, to me, due to the fragility of an internet connection.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 11:50AM Pingles said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Not on perma-death.

But I try not to make things too easy.

Like if I roll an alt I won't transfer gold to it. I enjoy that period when you are smacking mobs with a wooden sword while wearing a tattered jerkin.

I enjoy a good challenge and don't mind using a bit of pseudo-RP to back it up.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 12:14PM Hammerbeard said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I read a lot about permadeath groups/guilds when i was playing DDO and it really interested me. I never actually got around to rolling & playing a character though mainly due to my erratic playtimes. I would still like to do something like that for an alt. I mainly play Rift and since the whole lore is based on resurrection/cloning I don't think permadeath would actually fit into the game.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 12:42PM DeadlyAccurate said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I'm too reckless. I tend to run head-first into battle with little heed for the consequences*. I can't even imagine playing with permadeath rules.

*I do try to be courteous when I'm in groups, but I usually play solo.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 12:49PM Spacegrass said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You'd have to be crazy to want permadeath. An MMORPG character is such a huge investment of time that no one in their right mind would throw it all away just for dying once.

I've been playing SWTOR lately, and while the leveling is trivially easy, I don't really mind. I do quests to relax, explore and enjoy the story, and when I want a challenge I do warzones.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 8:18PM Saucelah said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Spacegrass

I don't agree with this statement at all. I can think of many circumstances in which perma-death would make a game more interesting, especially in games where fighting is not the primary pursuit.

Not every game is the same.
Reply

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 1:04PM Lumin said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
No. While it does sound daring and manly, there is a reason people don't embark on massive adventures and slaying sprees in real life. Games are not meant to represent real life, or the (physical) consequences of real life. This is doubly so for MMOs where time investment and character development are important.

I'm more on the ends-justifies-the-means side of the gamer spectrum. I won't hack or RMT my way to success, but I see no point in self-handicapping either. It doesn't prove anything.

Posted: Jan 9th 2012 3:10PM Daeths said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Not in mmos, but i did play a modded Fallout 3 where there was less ammo and it actually had a weight, every thing did more dmg and there was x5 spawn rate. All while i had to manage sleep, food and water levels which in turn made radiation more problematic. Fun times

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW