| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (81)

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 2:08PM hami83 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Heraclea Yeah, just hit the escape key, it takes you out of the convo and you have to restart it. Letting you replay any convo over and over again.
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 1:06PM HyperKabuto said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
They did good job of it, at least as far as my Sith Warrior story was concerned. I picked a couple Light Side options along the way to 50.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 1:10PM JonBuck said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
There are choices in some quests to basically come out neutral. For instance, on Hutta there's a guy hunting the locals. When you first find him he offers you a bribe. You get LS points for turning him down. The very next bit you can kill him, evening things out. Of course, you can also convince him to just go away, but considering what he's been doing my Bounty Hunter plugged the dishonorable killer then and there.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 2:00PM Joaquin Crowe said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Or just hit Dark/Light every time to get the perks. Who needs moral quandaries?

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 2:53PM coercer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I murder and torture everyone. Always. I am Sith.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 3:54PM Space Cobra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"Probably the most revealing is how Erickson admits that the writers are trying to pull players in multiple directions through a series of moral influences: the game's own light and dark side system, players' own morality, companions' own likes and dislikes, and multiplayer dialogue."

You know, that explains A LOT about some of the things they've set up storywise. So many players expected to be so insular, but with Companions that prefer certain choices and muddy Light/Dark choices themselves that stray from "grinding Light/Dark points", this makes the game more organic/real than "just grinding". I see players complain about this, but I have to agree with this point of throwing curveballs at the players instead of straight, easy to hit ones.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 4:33PM Kalex716 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think it would be way more interesting, even if frustrating (because contextually things can be interpreted many ways in some of the quests), if they told us whether or not things were dark/light AFTER we make them.

The way they do it right now is kind of a cop out.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 5:40PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Kalex716 There's an option to turn off the symbols on the convo wheel, iirc.
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 5:17PM CaffinatedOne said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I like that there are decision trees, and ultimately it'd be fun if the decisions themselves had actual consequences, but I do have an issue with the way that light/dark decisions are framed.

It feels like all of the light/dark decisions have to be taken without any larger context. So, if you were racing to save the planet from being destroyed but came across a puppy stuck in a pipe on the way, the game would have it be a "dark" choice to ignore the puppy. That stopping to save the puppy might very well result in the destruction of the planet seems to not come into the equation oddly. That doesn't feel right to me.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 5:45PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@CaffinatedOne But what if that puppy grew up to be the dog that saves a padawan from some bad guys, a padawan who then will turn into a powerful Jedi who defeats a Sith lord who had his finger on the button of the Empire's latest super weapon The Big-Ass Star Smasher Of Doom and was only a split second away from pushing it, cackling maniacally, and thus saving an entire planet of really, really morally good people?
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 6:06PM deadborder said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
I gotta admit, the "Light/Dark" thing is beginning to wear on me very, very fast. Some of the options seem rather arbitrary, as if they slapped in there a "oh, we should have a light/dark choice about now" and the levels of inanity that they're using to force decisions is mind-boggling. SWtoR is not good writing by any stretch of the imagination; the dialogue options oft seem forced and the fact that many of them (usually most for the inevitable good/bad morality play) don't make a shred of difference...

"You are my most loyal agent"
"Go stick yourself fatty."
"And I have entrusted you with this mission of utmost importance"
"I like guns and cheese"
"Do not fail me"
"Purple Monkey Dishwasher"

...and so forth.

The other thing that is driving me up the wall? Adorable orphans and their ilk. There are far too many quests that have an allegedly-shocking morality swerve mid way. The routine goes something akin to this; person A wants you to delete the data on the Atomic Napalm Death Ray so that it can't be used. But then, when you go to do such, come teary-eyed sadcase tells you that if you delete that data, then Adorable Orphans will die of cancer. Delete it? You get dark side points. Don't? You get light points, even if hundreds die of being frappe'd to Atomic Napalm death.

If this happened once, it'd be okay. Twice? Annoying. When a zone is hip-deep in that sort of crap (cough Ord Mantell cough)? Yeah, I got over it very quickly and began using dialogue skips on my first run through the zone. Yadda yadda, adorable orphans, don't know don't care, let me get off this damn rock.

Last point: Companions. Oh gods the way he was gushing over Vette made me roll my eyes, but was symptomatic of the problems with the game and trains of thought behind it. The companions are, in essence, NPCs that are forced on to you, ones that you're in essence compelled to like unless you want to screw over your own progression. This isn't storytelling, this is railroading by any other name. Where was my option to shock Vette till her head explodes just so I don't have to hear another inane chirpy quip? Wait, there isn't one. She's my Companion. I'm forced to care about her for reasons that I can't begin to fathom.

If this were a Tabletop Game (and given that BioWare's Devs like to talk about how they were tabletop gamers, this comparison is rather apt), the companion would be the GM's pet NPC who's forced on the players regardless of how they feel - only that the players have limited responses to said NPC, and none of them involve bodies in woodchippers.

In short? SWtoR is not good storytelling. It's a schizophrenic jumped-up mess that follows arbitrary choices based on the need to have a be good/be bad system. Is it a change from the "quest text you didn't read, go kill ten rats" system that has been the industry standard? Yes. Is it a change for the better? I'm not inclined to agree myself.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 6:16PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@deadborder

A round of applause. That's the sort of eviscerating commentary we need to see more of around here.

To me the grossest part of these failings is how simple they would be to circumvent.

If LS/DS nonsense were confined to a few meaningful instances instead of liberally sprinkled around everywhere the writers could have focused on making the consequences of those actions interesting and compelling.

If you were able to kill companions, like we were supposed to be able to do once upon a time, (and replace them with a personality devoid but ability identical droid so you wouldn't lose any mechanical functionality) there wouldn't be a need for them to annoy the piss out of people who's only crime is trying to play the game a different way than the quest writer envisioned.
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 6:53PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@deadborder It's not story writing, it's story telling. Of course it's going to be railroaded. If I'm reading Lord of the Rings, I can shout "don't accept, Frodo! Kick that batty old wizard out of your hobbit hole and go about your merry hobbity ways" at the pages all I want, but it won't change the fact that Frodo will end up taking that ring to Mordor. Tolkien is railroading me. He's the writer, I'm the reader, and I'm just along for the ride. I can either try and enjoy it or get off before the next stop.

Just view SWtOR as a pseudo-interactive movie and you'll be much happier. Or just quit the game and write your own story in which your smuggler drags that doctor off of that island by his hair to leave those orphans to die. (And I think you may have exaggerated the number of missions involving orphans on Ord Mantell a tad.)
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 6:57PM Tom in VA said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

I'm not sure about this, but I believe all classes get a droid companion that's reasonably class-compatible fairly early on in the game. If a player doesn't like the various NPC companions, it seems like that would be a good alternative, assuming the droids are personality-less.

I rather like the various NPCs, but it still seems like all of the classes should have been able to earned or purchase an effective droid companion first, perhaps with the option to turn the droid's personality (assuming there is one?) to OFF.
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 7:07PM Space Cobra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Tom in VA

Well, you get the droid with your ship, so that is early enough in Bioware's estimation, and mine too, even if I grumble under my breath at unlocking Legacy names at Level 30/Ch.1!

The good thing is, the droid you get has no loyalty points to earn. I was trying to figure out if I could hand a gift to him and he gained "0" affection. I then did a search and found no droids on Companion-lists-for-what-gifts-they like. I searched further and found, yes, they will always have "Zero Affection" because they are machines.

So, Dark-Side/Light-Side away with your protocol droid at your side during conversations!
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 7:36PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Space Cobra That only applies to the ship's droid. As a Jedi knight, your first companion is an astromech droid with whom you do gain or lose affection points.
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 7:47PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Tom in VA

Yeah, you do get a droid with your ship. Too bad it's mechanically inferior to every other companion you can have. That droid has zero offensive abilities.
Reply

Posted: Dec 31st 2011 1:49AM Celtar said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I don't honestly care about the companions anymore, I keep seeing what appears to be companions that tend to be designed to be in conflict with your character. So I stopped worrying about it, if they like my characters ( and I do have one of each class) fine, but other who cares.

Some of their reactions are quite one dimensional in nature and unrealistic I've noted. Btw crafting is a slow tedious process speaking of companions. Id rather do the damn things myself.

Posted: Dec 31st 2011 10:04AM Kalex716 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
From my own personal experiences gaming....

If I'm having a lot of fun with a game, my bug tolerance is much higher.

If i'm not having that much fun with a game, or it plays like too many other games i've already played, my bug tolerance is lower.

If i'm quitting because the bugs are so annoying, its not "just" because of the bugs, its because the juice an't worth the squeeze.

Give me lots of juice, and i'll take all the squeeze.

Posted: Jan 1st 2012 6:09AM Hurbster said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Erm, I'm having a great time and really enjoying it. Apart from that one quest in Coroscant that shoves freedom of speech RIGHT IN YOUR FACE.
Previous 20 Comments | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |

Featured Stories

Perfect Ten: My World of Warcraft launch memories

Posted on Oct 25th 2014 12:00PM

WRUP: WildStar's sadface

Posted on Oct 25th 2014 10:00AM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW