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Reader Comments (106)

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 7:11PM Graill440 said

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The only people that do not want something in a game or a feature that is not in accordance with how they think you, the consumer, should play a game are busybodies, you know, the majority of guilds and hardcore labled players flinging thoughts around hoping you will absorb them and like the borg become assimilated to their way of thinking and playing.

Busybodies cant stop worrying about what other people want or do in any game, they cant be called gamers and these people are very voiceful, detracting from the game in general. Woe be the independant thinker.

Who cares if there are macros, lfg tools, tools to show any number of metrics in a game. As long as it does not affect my playstyle i dont care, if it does then i simply move on. listening to, or reading about harping busybodies isnt fun for anyone.

Using the social crutch to support a busybody view is also pretty pathetic, grow up and do not worry about what other folks want or do, how about that?

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 8:20PM LizardSF said

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@Graill440 The key to your statement is "as long as it doesn't affect you" -- but tools like the dungeon finder DO effect the game, forcing designers to contort their design. No one here is saying "I don't want this feature because *I* don't want to use it"; they are saying "I don't want this feature because it will make the game worse." You need to address those criticisms directly if you wish to make a valid point, instead of trying to pretend that it's some kind of elitist plot to beat down the common man. I assure you, they don't get much more common and unelite than me, and I am utterly opposed to the idea of an LFG tool.

I liked the dungeon finger in WoW for a few weeks... and then I realized that as long as it was there, I didn't need anything else. I didn't need to go anywhere. I didn't need to quest. I didn't need to do anything but sit in Ogrimmar and queue up, then do it again and again and again. Doing anything else meant wandering an empty world, because all people did was queue up, unless there was a holiday/event somewhere.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2011 7:17PM Solude said

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Systems like WoW, Rift, DCUO have are required tools going forward. SWTOR's "system" is both good and a complete failure. Instances leave from the fleet, so if you want to run one, be in the mission area. The failure is there is absolutely nothing to do in that zone. At the very least in a Rift or WoW you could grind in the zone the instance was, but in SWTOR you get comfortable waiting for others to pop into /ooc. You can't alt-tab out, you can't watch TV, you have to watch /ooc until a healer, tank and 2 dps want the same instance you do. Without any sort of queue, being first in, doesn't mean first out. As a tank, I could very well grab the dps and heal that just walked in.

Cross server LFG is a requirement, really that simple if you plan to be casual friendly. And lets be frank here, why would the PvP crowd get one and the PvE crowd not?

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 7:37PM (Unverified) said

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They do need to put some sort of tool in, I do not want something like the WoW tool, tbh, something as simple as like EQ1 had it, where people could put LFG on their /who and then later when they added an interface for you to look up people who were LFG.

Personally my biggest issue is the fact that it can take me 30min-1hr just to get a flashpoint group going, and because of the lack of something, all you can do is sit in fleet and spam general chat. At least add something to where people can still go out and quest while trying to find a flashpoint group so we aren't having to sit in fleet wasting time whiel we look.

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 10:14PM Verus said

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I think we need to go basic when it comes to mmo. Encourage people to make friends online and find guilds. This helps you find groups for instances and reduces the random aggro LFG.

It also creates a more close community on the servers and within guilds/friends.

The random LFG where you click something, get group, run through and never talk to the same people again only gives a failing community.

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 10:21PM freebase said

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I'm level 35 and have done all the flashpoints and heroic quests so far. I've yet to have a problem forming groups. But I may just be on a good server. I'm also not in a guild.

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 10:25PM Dunraven said

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I have never once had a problem finding a group folk that want a WoW style LFD just want to endlessly grind Flashpoints

we already have that game it's called WoW

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 11:04PM pancho72 said

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There's a lot of different ways to make LFG tools. They don't have to be fully automated matchmaking services.

I think many players are naturally shy and need a little nudge occasionally to group. Thats why they don't take the initiative to ask in chat, but are happy to reply to an existing group.

A good LFG tool can assist those players without taking away the social aspect. My own personal favorite is LFG tools that work as bulletin boards. Players can post what kind of content they are looking for, and search for available groups, but need to make contact and make groups manually.
For some reason these kind of tools don't get used much, and I sometimes wonder why. The socially active people usually prefer chat, and the introverts tend to just monitor the chats. Maybe these tools simply don't receive enough attention and care in the UI department.

Posted: Dec 29th 2011 11:29PM DarkWalker said

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@pancho72

You just described the previous incarnation of WoW's LFD and LFR systems. No one used those.

I believe the main problem was critical mass. No one tried to use them because of the lack of people using them. Catch 22.

What Blizzard did to make the current LFD popular was a stroke of genius, IMHO. They awarded extra bonuses to players willing to do a "random" run, and also added an often requested bit of convenience - being ported to the instance - to the tool. This made plenty of players willing to use the tool either for the bonus or for the teleport convenience, and using the players applying for a "random" run to fill incomplete groups for specific dungeons meant wait times for everyone - even players applying for unpopular dungeons - were sharply reduced.

What I think could be done to make board-like tools better was integrating them with the chat. Make it so that players can, after adding themselves to the tool, just click a button and have the tool itself make the chat announcement for the player. This way, a player using the tool would actually have less work spamming chat for a group than a player using just the chat, would have a larger pool of players available - both the players on the tool and those on the chat - and, if / when enough players started using the tool to make wait times for non-users fairly higher than for the LFG tool users, naturally draw the rest of the players to the tool and kill LFG spam in chat.
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Posted: Dec 29th 2011 11:42PM (Unverified) said

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@DarkWalker
LFD and LFR was anything but a stroke of genius. LFD may be the thing that most destroyed what community aspect there was in WoW. People know that they were unlikely to see those they group up with so did not care how they acted. If they were kicked, they merely whined to Blizzard that they were treated unfairly so Blizzard would up the kick timer making it useless and forcing some players to have no choice but to carry others if they were going to use LFD.

Server communities completely disappeared after LFD. Before LFD, if you became known to be someone who carried their weight in a dungeon, you got to know a circle of people who would want to group with you and you them. After LFD, that disappeared. Many players who hated what became of the game merely left it. The ones who didn't just would run with a few guildies when they could.

If I ever learn of a game that has a LFD tool similar to WoW's, I will know to stay as far away from that game as possible.
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Posted: Dec 30th 2011 1:28AM (Unverified) said

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@DarkWalker : I'd be interested to see, though, how well such a system worked if it was baked into the game from launch, rather than being added later. When WoW's earlier LFG attempts were added, everyone was already totally accustomed to spamming in trade to form a group. It took something vastly superior (the 3.2 dungeon finder) to displace that.

I think a less automated system built into a game from launch could possibly satisfy both camps.
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Posted: Dec 30th 2011 1:29PM pancho72 said

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@DarkWalker

Critical mass is certainly a big part of it. Properly advertising an LFG tool and positioning in the UI might make a difference.

I do remember some of the old incarnations of the WoW LFG tool. It was used to some extent in combination with chat. My personal biggest issue back then was that it lacked fine grained control and search options.
Adding a chat macro to such a tool is an interesting idea, I don't remember having seen that in any game.

I didn't like the Dungeon Finder and like others think it destroyed the MMO'ness of WoW. I believe there can be too much automation and convenience in a game. Having some downtime and ineffeciency, for instance when travelling, can be good because it's an opportunity for socializing.
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Posted: Dec 30th 2011 1:27AM Unverfied B said

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I'll ignore any and all group content until there is a better LFG tool, and if there's still isn't one by the time i run out of stuff to do solo - i'll probably quit.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 2:20AM kalipou134 said

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@Unverfied B
I'm sure this is the case for a lot of people.

But don't worry, the devs already said it was "in the works"

Let's just hope they don't take 6 months to release it.
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Posted: Dec 30th 2011 2:10AM ImSteevin said

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I would settle for weapon preview...

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 7:46AM SkuzBukit said

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I still think EverQuest has one of the best LFG tools ever devised, & I miss that feature.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 7:56AM Azaetos said

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I find it funny how many of the things that are actually destroying WoW are the very same things that people want in SWTOR.

Blizzard have slowly turned WoW into the most boring, easy and anti-community game in the MMO sphere. Bioware need to study what is turning people away from WoW before they go full steam ahead duplicating it in just another setting.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 9:53AM dudes said

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Yes. Or it just does not compete. Simple as that.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 11:39AM Tom in VA said

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Basically, I just level up a bit and then run the "2/2+" heroics on my own, for the story.

I think finding groups in MMOs generally is a PITA.

My best guess is that, once the crowds thin out, SWTOR is going to have to rework a lot of its elite quest areas and quests to make them soloable, just as many other MMOs have done.

If SWTOR had an LFG system like WoW's (only server-specific; I am not a big fan of cross-server LFG tools unless individual server populations are really thin), I'd be more interested in joining groups in SWTOR.

Posted: Dec 30th 2011 12:28PM Dracones said

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Yes modern MMO's need a group finder tool. And yes, it needs to be cross realm.

Anything less and months after release the game becomes nothing but "grind solo til cap, then you can group" because there's not enough of a lowbie population to support the low end dungeons.

And MMO's are the most boring single player game in existence.

It's absurd to make a game about grouping and not put in place tools to bring people together. It's like saying "let's remove auction houses because they hurt the player economy".

5 years from now this won't even be a debate. All MMO's will ship with a group finder just like they all ship today with an auction house.

If there's a problem with how players act in the world you put in place new tools to deal with that.

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