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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Dec 26th 2011 12:11PM EdmundDante said

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It's sad to see every single piece of news coming from Lotro these days - is some kind of "sale". 50% off - come on down folks! It's like what has become of many local town festivals - where corporate think took over and the festivals become nothing but roaming stale market places.

With SWTOR - you have one subscription - and no email spam saying what the latest discounts are.

Here's a secret Ill share to all the CEO bean counters who are taking over many of these MMO game companies: - dudes - it's not about the money - it's about the fun.

And that is why you fail ...

Posted: Dec 26th 2011 12:28PM avaloner said

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@EdmundDante
It is about the money. You could make the funnist MMO in exsistance but without the money it would close down real fast. Developers need to be payed, servers need to be maintained, new content needs to be resarched and developed and profits need to be made to keep the company afloat and potential investers interested.

Biowar/Blizzard/Turbine/whatever dont care how much fun your having realy as long as your giving them money. Sure they want to make things as fun as possible because that attracts your custom and I'm sure the develpers themselves would like you to have fun in their world, but in the end its all about money.

MMO's that are not about the money are games most people have never heard of, or a niche titles. Sad realy but then thats capitalism.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 12:28PM ScottishViking said

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@EdmundDante

...so let me get this straight...because this game went F2P, which you clearly don't like, it's a failure? Or that because it has an alternate business model, it's not "fun"?

Hmm.

I think if you look to the profits Turbine has made from LOTRO, you'll find you're quite mistaken. Similarly, the many people who play LOTRO probably disagree with you about how "fun" it is.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 12:48PM Alph said

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@ScottishViking
"because this game went F2P, which you clearly don't like, it's a failure? "

No, it's a failure because it needed F2P to survive/be profitable.

When AAA sub MMOs fail they go to F2P hoping they don't die, it has nothing to do with his opinion of the F2P model.

If SWTOR announced they were going F2P soon...

...my point exactly.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 1:27PM OutThere said

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@Alph

Indeed, and now it is no longer a failure, but going quite strong, with RoI being their best selling expansion ever. I have noticed a lamentable trait in MMO players to trash games they don't like or don't play. "Fail" is the most popular word in the gamers lexicon.

If you are saying that the game itself is not very well crafted and does not play well, that is simply an opinion. If you are saying the gameplay is sucky because you don't like it, that again is simply an opinion. If you are saying that LOTRO did not gain enough of a fan base to support it and that makes it a failure, it is difficult to understand how going to F2P would have saved it. If you read the LOTRO forums, then you know that Turbine had considerable financial problems stemming from AC2 and was looking for a White Knight to rescue it. DDO was poorly received and the assumed IP of LoTR was expensive to mount.

So what did Turbine do? They sat down, made a plan, and carried it out. First they rescued DDO by going F2P, turning around that title to make it profitable. Then they did the same with LOTRO, tripling the revenue from that title.

I don't know about you, but when a studio figures out how to save its bacon, takes the required action, and carries it off -- sounds like a success to me. You may not like that any AAA title is F2P, but that doesn't make LOTRO or Turbine a failure. Flagship Studios with Hellgate London. That was a failure.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 1:32PM PhelimReagh said

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@Alph

"it's a failure because it needed F2P to survive/be profitable."

I think the subtleties of the English language escape you if you think "failure=profitable".
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 1:48PM kevinrahl said

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@ScottishViking

Yep pretty much sums it up for me.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 2:30PM (Unverified) said

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@EdmundDante

"With SWTOR - you have one subscription - and no email spam saying what the latest discounts are."

TOR has been live for a week, give it time.

If EA-Bioware aren't trying to double dip their subscribers with special offer sparklespeederbikes (or whatever other crap they think they can sell) inside of a year I will eat my copy of the Lord of the Rings - all 3 volumes.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 5:07AM Alph said

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@OutThere
I read your first paragraph, honestly I don't know what you planned to go on about after it but it struck me as not worth my time. I apologize if I stereotyped you wrong.

@PhelimReagh

While I'm getting sick of having to explain this to people, here I go again.

Successful/profitable/etc does NOT equate to good or quality.

Example, McDonalds is extremely 'successful' and 'profitable' but in no way is there food 'good' or 'quality'. People like to think that 'good' is based on opinion when factually it's not. One example is it's not good for your health.

Yes, when you look at nothing but the money aspect, it can appear those ways but when you use your brain and look at the whole picture you realize the truth.

So give me a dig all you want, imply that I'm stupid or don't understand english correctly... you only make yourself look foolish and immature to those who are not.

The funny thing about all of this is, I don't hate LotRO in the least bit nor do I have a huge grudge against F2P. (although I do prefer a good sub game that's worth a sub)

So continue playing the same old forum/internet game while the rest of us move on. P.S. Enjoy being spammed with Turbine Store sales and buy tokens buttons cluttered all over your UI.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 5:46AM Alph said

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@Alph
That's a lot I wrote there so here's a bulky tl;dr

Turbine tried to make a AAA subscription MMO. They FAILED just like they did with DDO. (despite the IP power)

Turbine then figured out a way to pull it out of death, Freemium. They SUCCEEDED. I'm happy for them, it saved a lot of jobs.

So LotRO = failure; Freemium = hail mary.

F2P switch has always been the distinctive mark of a failure.

So let's stop trying to push the word 'fail' off as a definitive zero only to stroke our fanboyism and push our agenda.

On dictionary dot com, the first definition contains the words 'fall short'. LotRO did(and does), indeed, fall short in many ways. Infact most MMOs end up falling short these days.

If you fail a class in school, it doesn't mean you know nothing, it means you don't know enough. It doesn't mean your stupid or worthless, it doesn't mean you'll be a bum. Heck, some people who've dropped out of high school have gone on to be very wealthy. So are they a success or are they a failure? Protip: They're both! I understand though, it's a lot easier to live in a black and white world.

/sigh
One day, I really do hope to achieve a place in my life where blatant stupidity/ignorance doesn't bother me anymore and I can just roll my eyes, laugh and move on instead of typing intelligent words and thoughts for blind eyes and closed minds.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 5:47AM Alph said

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@Alph
Orz

I ranted again, sorry. I blame server maintenance.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 9:49AM SwarlesBarkley said

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@EdmundDante

Edmund = fool of fail (not a typo, indeed a fool)

BUT.... Here is where Turbine HAS failed.... Going F2P truly did save their bacon as the upcoming competition was scary enough without them already losing people after Moria, when the updates became scarce.... They went F2P, many of us rejoiced... We thought that we would once again get meaningful updates like back in the days of SoA. What we got though was a corporate buy-out that has really changed the way Turbine does business forever making it feel less like a small Mom-n-Pop MMO company and more like your run-of-the-mill big-time corporation. Turbine used to win awards not only for its gameplay and innovative ideas, but also for its brand loyalty.

Since going F2P we have seen quite a few updates, but some were less than filling. Their one chance to make up for the meh updates this past year was, by many accounts, their first EPIC FAIL. Isengard was the perfect chance to really recapture that magic we felt upon entering Moria for the first time, or when you first came through the gates of Imladris, but instead we got mediocre story-telling, BS quests that would have never happened in a million years (questing inside Isengard as prisoners with our shinies intact), and dull clean-up quests to help some tribes people that even Stevie Wonder could have seen would betray you.

I hope 2012 is "their most content-filled year ever" or what they could really do is instead of focusing on quantity, work on their quality a little more. Personally I see no way they can recapture 2008, but I could be wrong. Here is hoping Turbine stops worrying about when everyone else will release their game, not rushing stuff out and actually get back to the story and make me feel good about being Middle Earth again and not like the heartless hack who shoes beggars off the street.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 10:48AM OutThere said

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@SwarlesBarkley

There is no doubt that 2011 was (hopefully) the worst year for LOTRO. I could list half a dozen things that are turds floating on the lake water and which I think point to a less than admirable direction of the game. Change has definitely come to Middle Earth and for many it is not pretty. But change from the familiar or change in a direction we don't approve of is not failure, it is simply disappointment.

Turbine has been very successful with F2P, but for many of us the direction they have gone in has been a painful disappointment. If Turbine delivers in 2012, as I hope they do, then we can look back on 2011 as the year of adjustment. If it doesn't, but continues in the same direction, then 2011 will be the year that we recognized where the game was going.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 5:35PM SwarlesBarkley said

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@OutThere

I doubt 2012 will be a make or break year for Lotro, but I think it will definitely either strengthen or weaken the fanbase. I think many are on the fence right now about Lotro. Its one failure, albeit a huge letdown considering the source, but was it a one-time thing or will this be the new trend?

Things I think that need to happen for Lotro this year:
*Get out of the quest hub point A to point B thing and be a little more daring with the quests. At first this style of questing like we saw (I believe) introduced with Forochel is starting to get old.

*For Gods sake do something with these fantastic tools at your disposal. You have some strengths and originality, use them! Make some MP skirmishes. If you will not put out a new MP area, at least do something like a warzone. Hutball might not work, but a capture the flag, or attack/defend thing would be wildly successful.

*Decrease the grind and stop trying to reset it so much. People want to play other games, along with Lotro, not just waste away the hours on a "new legendary weapon". or better yet stop calling them Legendary Weapons, and call them what they really are ie; Glowy weapons with ok stats, but with possibilities that are only as good as your current level, but that will be thrown into the nearest creek once the level cap is increased again.

*Have a good solid month of giving fans what they have been asking for since 2007... 1/12 of the year devoted to fixing hobbies, housing, kinships would not kill Turbine.

*Make the epic quests truly epic again. Hell I will even go so far as to say that I loved the first chapter of volume III. Getting to travel through time was nice and made me feel AWESOME... Carrying sticks for tribesmen, not so awesome.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 12:16PM moakh said

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I really hope that "more content than you've seen at any time since our launch in 2007" is more than the linear progression of simple kill tasks from quest hub to quest hub in an overcrowded overland zone like they seem to fancy lately.
I'd appreciate some love for Monsterplay fans. There has been a promise of a second PvMP zone since the days of Moria development. Time to fulfill that one! :)
Also, time to revisit some unfinished corners of the game. New hobbies and improvements to player housing please! When fishing was introduced, there was talk of other hobbies to come soon. When housing was done, there was talk of improvements to the system to come, well, soonish. Please Turbine, don't be the CCP Games of Middle-earth. Don't let too many game features dwell in partial completion.

Posted: Dec 26th 2011 5:18PM Randomessa said

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@moakh
I really hope that "more content than you've seen at any time since our launch in 2007" is more than the linear progression of simple kill tasks from quest hub to quest hub in an overcrowded overland zone like they seem to fancy lately.

I agree, this kind of progression has been a burr in my backside and is why the fun train has slowed down considerably for me in LOTRO.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 10:00AM SwarlesBarkley said

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@Randomessa

I like how they touted Enedwaith as having more quests than the North Downs, yet were they as meaningful. I mean any game can throw more quests in a single area, but do they have substance or are they to kill x amount of giants, x amount of baby dragons for daily quests. The one place that Turbine could add more to do for endgamers is MP and yet it has been the one place they refuse to touch, other than to change some things here and there. Many people love the stories for their songs, their, adventure, but also for the actual wars, yet Turbine continues to deny people what they have been screaming for. I was one of the people who this time last year was excited that they were finally going to have a MP area, yet that dream vanished and has not been talked about since.

People in the forums back in the day used to say what an epic fail it was on Turbine for not having PvP in the game, and now I wonder what that game would have been like had it been implemented as an option for those who wanted to do it, and not as an after-though like MP is.
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 1:10PM smartstep said

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Turbine broken their word with Lotro quite a few times in last 1,5 year, so no thanks but no. I just don't believe them. Besides quality of content dropped ALOT in Lotro.

Stopped playing and won't play their game again.

Posted: Dec 26th 2011 3:56PM Lenn said

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@smartstep "But I'll keep on commenting on the supposed downfall of the game here on Massively until I'm blue in the face."
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Posted: Dec 26th 2011 6:29PM smartstep said

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@Lenn

Oh that's actually possible.

Though game in my eyes already fallen :)
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