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Reader Comments (44)

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 4:32AM Dblade said

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Why do we even need the stupid things? GW is "oh we are so different" but they keep the same rotten achievement system which kills immersion and more often than not is just pointless grinding.

First TOR saying they'll make parsers and now this.

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 8:45AM Irem said

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@Dblade
Some of us like them, and there's no reason not to include them if they're done well. Grinding hard-to-get titles or reputation ranks or kill/gather-X-of-Y achievements is something I enjoy in MMOs because it usually allows me to do something relatively mindless with a goal in mind while just hanging out, looking at the scenery or talking to friends. If my hands aren't busy, I bite my nails. :P
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 8:46AM comps said

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@Dblade people use 'kills immersion' way too much to just pin on something they don't like, does pressing hot keys kill immersion? what about looking at the screen? no that's all fine, just the features you don't personally like kills it huh?

I'm surprised people care at all about an optional side feature, It's like complaining crafting takes something away from a game because you then have to gather materials which is a grind.

If people want to achievement grind then that's for them, I'll pass and busy myself with what looks to be a very comprehensive range of other things to do in the game but I see no reason to deny those would want to do it.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 9:20AM (Unverified) said

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@comps
Agreed. Perhaps all the complaining about LotRO slayer deeds (deeds I actually enjoyed doing, most of the time) is due to the "required" nature of them. You basically HAD to do the ones that unlocked your desired virtue, regardless of how much you liked or hated grinding. But as a totally optional feature...bring on the grind. Those that enjoy them can do them, and those that don't, won't.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 3:04PM Dblade said

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@comps It's not an optional side feature because when you just want to play, you keep getting stupid messages as you fulfill them. Many achievements are designed to be unlocked in the normal course of play, and it is immersion killling to have a constant twitter-like feed of non-achievements thrown in your face. I just want to soak in the land and atmosphere, and I don't need obsessive-compulsive game design to take away from that. It makes MMOs a game of cow clicker.

Heaven help you if they give you gear you can't otherwise get in the game, or they are publically visible so people can rank your character by what they have done.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 3:26PM comps said

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@Dblade

hyperbole. there is no evidence of any of that.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 4:42AM (Unverified) said

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Can't say that this sounds that exciting to be honest. I got excited for a second when they said "we don't just want points as a reward for players, we also want to really reward players" (here's where I started to get excited) "with titles" **balloon deflates**. woo hoo, titles, big deal.

Don't like the sound of daily achievements, just sounds like a way to mask daily quests. Also the idea of repeatable achievements is kind of iffy - I mean what's the point in running your "achievement score" up if all you get as rewards are titles anyway?

Meh, excited for GW2 but can't say this really sounds that amazing.

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 4:47AM (Unverified) said

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Oh jesus don't give us LOTRO style slayer deeds, god those were terrible. And for fuck sakes don't just give us a god damn titles and points for achievments, how god damn boring

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 8:52AM Irem said

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@(Unverified)
I have a feeling they're not offering more substantial rewards (at least, not yet, or not that we know of) for the same reason they didn't offer anything but titles for the Hall of Monuments past 30/50 points: people will push themselves to do things they don't want to do for physical rewards, but titles are usually only attractive to completists.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 2:08PM Eamil said

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@Irem

Or people who really like a specific title.

I was so tempted to hit 40/50 because I thought Flameseeker was nifty, but those extra 10 points are just too much freaking work. =(
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 3:55PM Irem said

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@Eamil
Yeah, I probably wouldn't be struggling (probably in vain) to get 50/50 if I didn't want "Champion of the Gods" for my GW2 necro. With titles, though, I've noticed that people seem to have an easier time passing them up if they really don't want to put themselves through the wringer.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 9:26AM ArcherAvatar said

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I'm at the far end of the "explorer" side of the explorer / achiever axis on the Bartle test, so the only interesting news in that announcement for me was the information covered by Jon Peters about the significant improvement to the thief class's mechanic and the incredibly important news about how they are dealing with the length of animations for skills.

Hopefully, the overview of the achievements system sounded appealing to the achievers it's aimed at.

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 9:51AM Ehra said

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I'm fine with crazy titles/goals that most people won't get. It's just a title, so it's not like it's necessary for me to do these things if I don't enjoy them; but it gives a small way to show off what those people have accomplished. I'm never going to complete the vanquishing or exploration or skill hunter or drunkard or sweet tooth or party animal ect titles in Guild Wars 1. And you know what? The knowledge that there is something somewhere in the game that I'm never going to earn or accomplish is fine.

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 10:09AM mayeen said

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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 10:53AM comps said

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@mayeen

That's a terribly written article.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 10:18AM VikingGamer said

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How much do you want to bet there will be an achievement for killing 9001 Centaurs?

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 11:19AM Space Cobra said

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@Amlin

Yep! True of any MMO game. It fits well with what this Massively article covers on Meridian59:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/27/the-game-archaeologist-crosses-meridian-59-a-chat-with-brian-gr/#continued

"I think the most important thing is that the servers stayed small, so the community got to know each other. In a lot of other games, the random killers tend to strike at people then fade away into the masses of other players. Because the gameworld and the number of players on each server were smaller than those of many other games, it was easier to find and hunt down the random killers as well as build friendships and rivalries."

While there have always been jerks/trolls around, even in older games (like MUDs), the community size does a fairly good job of controlling them. It is much easier to be a loud-mouthed geek-jerk and yell out inappropriate things in a large banquet hall rather than do the same in a small gathering; the "human condition" or more precisely in this case, "peer pressure" tends to clamp down on such acts and straighten players out (that is, if they *want* to be a part of the game or game's community). You always will get those exceptions that will try to go against the grain, but the difference in a smaller community is you can identify them and talk to them one-on-one and you find out their stance and admire them (but still disagree) or reach some sort of agreement.

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 11:37AM Space Cobra said

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It's strange. I like getting achievements and I hate them all at once.

You see, I am a bit of a completionist and if I see an empty slot on my list, my countenance grows dark and thunder starts to rumble with static electricity making my cat's hairs stand on end.

Part of this is just I can be a very casual player and part is that I'd want my (numerous) alts to also have such a completed list and that is not possible. So, I don't think too hard about it, unless I get in the mood to do so, either farming something to kill X amount of times or locating some space that is hard to get to, even if it is gated via level.

While it does and can bother me, I think like most people, I get tired of such things, but sooner than many of them. The big thing on XBox (and now PS3 sadly) were achievements, but you don't hear too much about "Player score" anymore in that regard, unless it's a particular achievement that is hard to get. Frankly, you will always have a certain percentage of your player base who will always keep their list high and this can be due to either ample play times or strict regiments on gaining such achievements (even working a little bit on something everyday, you gain progress).

People are still impressed by it and they are still used as yard sticks, but for the most part, such a system is now literally in every game, so you have to shrug your shoulders at most of it (if you want to remain sane) and just play how you like. Really, while it can be use as "bragging rights", the majority of gamers at this point, IMHO, simply have moved on and don't care for it (unless it's for some raid thing, which is a bit of another problem).

Posted: Dec 27th 2011 3:10PM Dblade said

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@Space Cobra A lot of achievements simply aren't necessary. What I hated about them for 360 is that most of them wound up being "Just beat the game and we'll give you 800 points." The simpsons game lampooned this by giving you an achievement as soon as YOU TURNED THE GAME ON. Or Pressed start, I forget.

Some of them used fairly creative achievements which added longetivity to the game, but a lot of them were pure grind (gears of wars online achievements for one) I just don't like the whole mechanic anymore, and the game alone should invite enough replayability without those carrots.
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Posted: Dec 27th 2011 1:32PM JayDay said

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I am looking forwards to GW2 but I tell you this with all honesty. Some of the folks trolling the TOR forums about how the game lags etc will be surprised their prized toasters won't even load GW2. This game will eclipse TOR for system requirements.

Get read for GW2 forums to be flooded with morons trying to run this game on WoW or GW systems.

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