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Reader Comments (56)

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 6:56PM (Unverified) said

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@smartstep the ignorance is strong in this one

damage meters/heal meters = great for learning where you are doing something wrong and improving, also for finding out who is being carried, there is one thing i really hate about games like this and its the people who waste my time, if i have a way to find how who they are then great

threat meters = its very nice to know when you are going to pull aggro, not just guessing then dieing because the boss turned around and killed you

enemy cast bar = great for pvp, rather then just stopping them from casting what ever most good pvpers focus on stopping certain skills
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 7:29PM scfs123 said

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@smartstep Lets see if we get working raid bars before we get damage meters=(
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Posted: Dec 25th 2011 11:30AM ChaosInc said

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@(Unverified)

damage/heal meters = true if used for personal use on improvements, but let's face it. Since it's WoW implementation it's become a tool for elitists to chastise and ridicule others. The rest of your comment proves this: your time is no more important than anyone else's. I don't mind "carrying" people through a dungeon; I've been carried before. I'm there for the game and enjoy the content, not to prove how "1337" I am or verbally harass someone for not be "da bestest". If you need to use damage/healing meters to feel better about yourself by putting others down thanks to your failures in real life, that's your thing.

threat meters = Not drawing aggro is part of knowing how to play your class. It's just another "tool" for the lazy who don't want to learn or pay attention to what they're doing.

enemy cast bar = There are animations to casts that you can notice as well. These do no equal skill, just another "tool" for the lazy.

Just about everything you are ranting about takes the skill out of the game and only reinforces Ehra is talking about above. MMORPG players these days don't want to be challenged. Just stick the quarter in, turn the wheel, hand out the purples and be 1337. Anyone who "stands in their way" are "bads for enjoying the game instead of worrying about their GearScore."
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 6:18PM dudemanjac said

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I wish they would leave it out personally. It only amounts to ppl demanding that I have this or that lvl of dps or whatever in order to party with them.

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 6:25PM (Unverified) said

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Oh no

I just hope they won't allow addons, combat logs I'm ok with.

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 6:35PM Ashane said

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@(Unverified)

They've already said addons are coming, just not when.
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 8:04PM Eamil said

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@(Unverified)

If they never do addons they need to implement far more UI customization than the game currently has. You can't change ANYTHING AT ALL about the UI except the number of hotbars. Can't reposition any windows, nothing.
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 10:22PM (Unverified) said

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@Eamil

Not true. You can reposition your operations frames. And for the healers out there, you can set these frames to display instead of the party frames and move them closer to your field of view.
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 6:55PM TheJackman said

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very high on [BioWare's] priority list." is the same like say maybe soon maybe never depending on our team maybe other stuff is also very high on there priority list we not known what is on there priority list and of they actively working on that list or is it all some marketing talk (tell them what they want to hear to keep them happy). Only time will tell....

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 7:38PM real65rcncom said

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Goodbye innocence.

It was nice to be playing an mmo for a change and not have to look at my or anyone else's "damage" to see if we were "up to snuff" or even see people saying "Whoa I looked in my logs, and I just crit that guy for 5k!" as if someone cared.

Instead, just playing and killing things was good enough.

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 10:17PM jealouspirate said

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@real65rcncom

Yeah, totally agree. This just makes me sad. I hate these kind of metrics that people become so obsessed with.

I was reading a thread about this on the official forums, and someone lamented the 'dps meters' mentality and all he got as a response was "It's only a problem if you're bad!" or "Don't want anyone to know that you're getting carried by people actually working, eh?"

It just... ugh. I have trouble finding the words. It just seems like the opposite of a fun videogame.
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 8:22PM Mister Eee said

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With damage meters in WOW, your entire perceived value boils down to your DPS meter number. PUGS would look for players based on their DPS numbers. Raids would judge your every fight by your DPS numbers.

It didn't matter if you did other beneficial things such as crowd control or interrupts or threw in a heal every now and then. In fact, many players avoided doing anything but DPS, just so that their DPS numbers would not suffer.

So, no thanks to a group damage meter. A personal damage meter that only the player can read, however, is fine as I think it will avoid the issues above.

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 8:55PM drsinister said

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@Mister Eee
I agree here with you. Even in WoW with my Druid I did both DPS and off heal when it is needed. At least the guild I was in didn't boot me out of a raid cuz my DPS meters was not up to snuff because they knew I was doing other things also.

That is the prob I see with meters, ppl concentrated on too much on 1 meter, like who was top in dps or top in hps. The thing is that you have to look at all of them and gauge what a player is doing. But there is nothing you can do when people uses these tools improperly.
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 9:25PM HiroProtagonist7 said

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These things matter more in games where the effect of player skill is negligible. In aim based games you do better with weapons that feel better to you. How much damage you take depends on how well you dodge - how much you do depends on how well you aim. There are still differences in armor and weapons with player skill based games, but without aim, what you have matters far more than what you do. IMHO less interactivity is bad - take the human element out and you're left with playing a spreadsheet that has avatar shaped cells. Tab 1,4,3 tab 1,4,3.

Posted: Dec 24th 2011 10:19PM jealouspirate said

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I really hate meters and bars and numbers. I don't care about how much dps I do, or how much you do, or about optimizing builds and rotations. Focusing on this type of information will just drive me away from the game.

I just want to be in a galaxy far, far away.

Posted: Dec 25th 2011 10:19AM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@jealouspirate

Typical soloer.

If you play in a group and you don't care about your DPS/Threat/healing, you're just wasting everyone elses time. It's very selfish to turn up in sub-par gear and cause wipes because you just can't bothered to learn2play.

But sure, solo away and nobody cares (and in that case, this topic shouldn't really be very much of a problem to you anyhow).
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Posted: Dec 25th 2011 11:45AM jealouspirate said

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@SgtBaker1234556

You misunderstand.I do in fact do group content, and make sure I know just enough to not suck. In MMOS I typically play a healer and think I do a pretty good job. I've never done a SWTOR flashpoint that wiped.

My concern is with defining what "good" is. To me, if the group lives and the mobs die it's a successful run. But many people are so obsessed with optimization and not "carrying" others that you end up competing against your teammates, not the enemies.

You said it's selfish to show up in "sub-par" gear. What does that word mean to you? I know I've been chewed out by people for wearing gear that was perfectly adequate for completing the instance, but just worse than what everyone else had.

What I don't like is people using these metrics to compare and compete with the people they're supposed to be working with. To min/max people. MMOs are supposed to be about positive interaction between people, and more often than not these metrics have soured my interactions instead of improved them.

I'm also more interested in the immersion, atmosphere, narrative and 'feel' of a game than the numbers, so that's part of it. I'd rather have the Esseles flashpoint actually be about fighting the Empire instead of about tweaking statistics to produce bigger numbers.
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Posted: Dec 24th 2011 10:52PM Nucleon said

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I find it interesting. Time and time again people blame the tools: DPS meters, addons, LFD, cross-server LFR for the problem rather than the players. WE are the bad community we hate. WE are the problem, not the tools. If anything it's systems and structures which reward certain behavior. Imagine if there was a meaningful system where your player reputation was tracked across all of your characters, across all servers. Would you treat people like a jerk? No. As long as there is no accountability, nor reason to be a nice person and help people, then we won't. It's Lord of the Flies out there. Watch mob riots, remove just the slighest bit of accountability (pack anonymity) and we become heathens. Why do we expect anything less online? We... need... social... tracking... tools... period.

Is there any punishment for a tank leaving a group because of low DPS groupmates? No. Is there a reward for a tank to abandon a low DPS group. Yes, he gets another group instantly and clears the instance faster and with less deaths. Why do we expect tanks to act in another fashion?

Posted: Dec 25th 2011 12:37AM Valkesh said

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Do not feed the min/maxers. Nobody will use these to "work out their builds" and instead it just fosters the sad elitist sect of the community dedicated to making "perfect" cookie cutter builds and then excluding/deriding anyone who doesn't abide by them.

Posted: Dec 25th 2011 12:51AM Ashane said

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@Valkesh

So dont play with those people?

Again, even WITHOUT a Meter, people are already making the "best" builds, and if you dont have it, they wont group you. How would adding a Meter make that any worse?

The problem people have is with other players. However, your playing a MMO... which involves thousands of other people. If you dont like a certain group, DONT PLAY WITH THEM. Its not really that hard fella's.

We use meters to simply see if we can be more effective for ourselves. Not to judge others, or require certain people to use certain builds. Personally, I would like to be able to see what my DPS is in certain rotations, what's the highest, what's the second highest.. how can I get the best DPS while maximizing threat, etc etc.
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