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Reader Comments (119)

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 4:24PM DarkWalker said

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@Clemalum07

In a game? No, thanks, I don't want to be held accountable to my mistakes from now until eternity.

My point of view is simple. If I want to respec and find I can't, I leave the game.
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Posted: Dec 12th 2011 10:20AM Ceridith said

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There should always be some way to respec your character without rerolling. How easy and quick it is to do, depends on the game and who the developers are aiming to please.

Personally, I think the way UO did it was the best of all MMOs. You didn't have to pay anything to respec. You just kept playing and raising a different skill, and let the ones you no longer wanted to get forced down from the skill point cap. It felt the most fluid and let players tinker with their builds... but it took work.

But what's good for one game and it's playerbase isn't good for all others. For a game like WoW, with gamers that have little patience for waiting, dual specs and cheap and easy respeccing makes sense... even though personally I think it makes things too easy... but that's what the game is going for.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 10:38AM MustardCutter said

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reset feats (re-spec): yes
reset class (change advanced class): no, that's ridiculous in a class based game.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 4:30PM DarkWalker said

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@MustardCutter

I would actually agree if TOR's ACs didn't feel more like different specs of the same class than like different classes altogether. I see a bigger gameplay difference between WoW's Feral and Balance DPS druids than between TOR's Guardian and Sentinel.

Also, I'm not really willing to start playing any game that doesn't allow me to change between Tanking and Healing, on a single character, for end game (besides GW2, due to the fact it doesn't actually have Healers :)
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Posted: Dec 13th 2011 9:10AM Malagarr said

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@DarkWalker

Being able to swap between tanking and healing on a single character is not very common in MMOs today. You could dual spec a Druid or Paladin in WoW, or you could play a Cleric or Rogue in Rifts. But beyond that I can't personally think of any MMOs that allow you to swap between those two roles (although I'm certain they exist).

Specifically regarding TOR, I'm curious about your conclussion that the ACs don't play like different classes. I've leveled a Juggernaut and a Marauder, a Powertech and a Mercenary and a Vanguard and a Commando in beta, and I felt all of them played significantly different from one another. They are about as similar as a Warrior and a Paladin in WoW. They have some similarities, but they are obviously different classes. They use different weapons, have some shared powers but also have entirely unique powers and use different armors. The only significant similarity is their shared storyline.

That said, keep in mind the design for TOR. TOR has a Legacy system, which encourages players to try alternate classes so they can experience their storylines. If you play just one character in TOR, you really are doing it wrong. If they allowed you to swap ACs freely (or even for a fee) they would be discouraging people from playing new characters. It makes no sense.

However, I am personally ok with some way of being able to swap ACs being implemented into TOR, for those people who perhaps reach level 40 or so and realize that they really don't like the playstyle of the AC they chose. This shouldn't be a simple matter, though. It should involve a long quest chain or a huge hit to the pocket book and it should only be able to be done a couple of times (or maybe once a month). This way people aren't able to just run to town and quickly spec to a different AC before a raid/group or, worse yet, just able to click a button on their UI and switch to a different AC on demand (though, again, I'm all for actual dual speccing).

But I play my games to have fun. And if there's one thing I've learned over the past decade about MMOs, it's that raid leaders like EZMode. So rather than making due with the raid force available to them (like we used to do), they will demand that you have at least one spec dedicated to what they feel they need for their raids. Dual speccing permits this and by having only two roles in any AC (either DPS & Tank or DPS & Heal) you can feel certain that no raid leader is going to force you to take both a healing and tanking spec for your character. Does that mean people who want to do both on a single character will be disappointed? Yes. But that's a small price to pay to make the game enjoyable for the vast majority of the player base.
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Posted: Dec 12th 2011 10:45AM (Unverified) said

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I dont mind respecs, if limited to an extent. But, in WOW as an example, they have Dual-Specs, which essentially has destoryed the originality of each players choices. If you have played wow, while its cool to have twp specs, it sucks in a sense as well.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 4:33PM DarkWalker said

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@(Unverified)

For me, the two single best WoW features from the WotLK era are the LFD, and Dual Specs, to the point I was often asking for more specs on the suggestions forum. Without them, I would have left that game way earlier.

I simply don't see any fun anymore in playing a restricted character.
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Posted: Dec 12th 2011 11:06AM mrantimatter said

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absolutely.

Many times have I found myself with misspent points, or skills that just don't seem to matter once I finally make it to the high end.

Now, they should have some added cost each time you do it, with said cost eventually depreciating down to normal after a few weeks/months.

I'm also a fan of Rift style multi-specing, allowing you to have several specs you can flip between for certain situations. Give a class a lot more utility.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 11:27AM (Unverified) said

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Everyone's harping about "Consequences" to your choices. Everyone forget we're playing a "video game" here? Something to be enjoyed by all who would purchase the game.

So a new or inexperienced player has to get 25 hours into a spec they turn out to not enjoy and instead of "respecing" they have to start over again? We're not in'94 playing 1player console games. The Story pertains to the class, not the specialization.

Respecs should be offered either at launch or shortly thereafter in a triple A MMO.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 11:39AM Iorkca said

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Respeccing within your chosen class yes, and wow, rift and tor all let you do that.

Duel speccing ala wow and rift i think definatly has its advantages and its something id like to see tor do down the line also. The advantages of duel speccing is basically for grouping, it is sometimes painfully hard to find a group as dps and having a second spec like heals or tank can help with that. Lets face it the least rolled classes in games are tank and heals. Even a game like wow with its millions of subs ive waited in que as dps for over an hour but instant when i chose to tank so thats the only reason i think duel speccing is a good idea, face who wants to sit looking for a group for 2 hours.

and to the trolls in this post lol, you guys always make me laugh

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:03PM (Unverified) said

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Normally I'd be all for re-specs, but I'm really tired of the fotm wow babies so maybe if there were no respecs we'd have less asshats to deal with?

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:14PM (Unverified) said

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Every game needs a free respec system, even f2p games. Like others have said, the moment where I have to pay for mistakes in builds, is the moment I stop playing. I like the way that DCUO does it, you can respec for a in-game price based fee, but it goes up if you keep going back. After a while it goes back down to the initial value. This way, players can choose to experiment with builds and find the build best suited for them. F2P games are notorious for this because most of them are Asian developed games which like to nickel and dime the hell out of you. I ran out of fingers counting the number of games I quit when I learned you need to respec to change your char.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:20PM (Unverified) said

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I don't mind as long as they're not prohibitive. In one of Nexon's games, DFO, the game really has a strong core of skill-building and allows for quite a bit of experimentation. The catch, however, is you get one reset at level 48 once you awaken (basically get your special title / access to super move). Other than that, for this 70 level game they charge around $25 for a reset. I know of more than a few people who have actually dropped high level characters because of this fee and simply pray that one day another patch will drop that will require a mandatory reset for all players.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:23PM edgecrusherO0 said

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Honestly, if they're going to have a specialization system, they need to go one of two routes.

1. Make it permanent. You pick a character and that character can ONLY fill one roll. A system like this has to be extremely intuitive so that newer players aren't stuck with horrible specs, but a system like this can work alright.

2. Let them change whenever with no penalty. One thing that I really dislike is the slight penalty in games like WoW and Rift. It's not enough to really make it a decision about whether or not you want to respec, but it's enough to make it annoying between redoing action bars, the tree, glyphs, spending a bit of money ect. It's not even really a penalty, just an annoyance. Letting people change whenever they want without a penalty allows the player to more or less customize their character to play exactly how they want, which makes the game much more fun.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 4:40PM DarkWalker said

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@edgecrusherO0

I would only go with your (1) option if the character was more like Team Fortress 2's characters than most MMO characters. Otherwise, I find single role characters mindlessly boring.
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Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:30PM Beltyra said

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Why do people say for TOR you cant respec ACs etc etc, but in Aion not a word was said about picking Gladiator or Templar etc???

Its the same system...

Haters gonna hate?

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 4:43PM DarkWalker said

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@Beltyra
I pick on TOR because it's a game I would otherwise like to play, but I simply won't pick it up until there is AC switching.

Aion, on the other hand, I couldn't care less.
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Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:33PM Averice said

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An advanced class is not a spec. There's 8 classes, there's 4 starter classes. Each class has 3 specs which you can respec.

And yes, all games should offer them if it involves the placement of character stats and/or has talent trees.

Posted: Dec 12th 2011 12:38PM Ocho said

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I like the "once and done" method in theory. However, it really only works if Nothing changes, which is against everything about the MMO genre. If you decide you want to specialize in fireballs, and then they nerf fireballs, well then your entire choice just got nerfed and theres nothing you can do about it. This may just put you back in line with where you were supposed to be instead of overpowered, but it did it against your will. Don't like the nerf? Only choice would be to completely re-roll or pay real money. Keeping respecs makes the entire process fair to everyone and doesn't trivialize all the effort already put into a character.

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