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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:10PM bigmike4sale said

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"My hope is that people will get the MMO story silliness out of their systems during TOR's free month, and then return to the meat and potatoes of AoC's heartier combat system and superior aesthetics."

Says a person supporting a game which failed due to it being unable to continue that "silly story" past level 20... Also, its "superior aesthetics" is what caused many people to not even buy the game due to the system requirements. As for heartier combat system, that's just personal preference and the whole arrow directional keys in combination with abilities is rather gimmicky to many MMO players as opposed to "heartier." To each his own, I suppose.

Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:21PM J45neoboy said

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@bigmike4sale

I can't stand the combat in AoC but I love TOR's. Call me crazy =P
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:43PM Skyydragonn said

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@J45neoboy
so you like EQ/WoW/LotRO/DDo style combat, gotcha. Becuase ToR brings so much innovation to decades worth of tried and true shampoo syndrome (wash, rinse, repeat)
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:59PM bigmike4sale said

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@Skyydragonn

What? First, DDO isnt anything like those other games you mentioned in terms of combat style. Secondly, people often mistake innovation for quality and tightness of gameplay in general. WoW, the most succesful MMO ever, didn't have to reinvent the wheel to obtain subscribers. It simply refined, strengthened, and tightened the systems of Everquest by improving upon them. Does Call of Duty redefine FPS with each new release? Absolutely not. It repackages the same shit as the year before using the same engine, a crappy "new" campaign, and some tweaks to multiplayer. Does it, however make millions upon millions of dollars by doing so? Absolutely. Innovation does not always equal success.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 2:05PM Chiren said

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@bigmike4sale

I love the arrow button combat system - it breaks up the monotony of rotation combat.

Rotation combat is how you get talent trees full of crap like, "gives a 5% chance of 50% chance of something doing 20% more damage 10% of the time".
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 2:33PM J45neoboy said

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@Skyydragonn

Exactly, and honestly, I don't care too much for inovation. Doesn't bother me either way, like I'll play Tera, but if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 2:55PM JayDay said

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@bigmike4sale

""My hope is that people will get the MMO story silliness out of their systems during TOR's free month"

To go back to Age of Conan's lackluster performance and childish community?

OK, pass me the bong after you're done.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:18PM Braiks said

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Completely agree with Jef here I'm afraid.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:27PM Dunraven said

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MMO Story Silliness?

That has got to be the most ignorant and asinine comment I have read on this page ever. Trust me AoC is dying because it doesn't offer more of that MMO story silliness it's why the masses (and I'm not talking about the vocal sock poopers who hate the 1-20 game ) left AoC after Tortage,

The MMO Story silliness will probably be the last nail in a game that could have been as epic as the Stories Howard wrote and if you actually listened to what Craig Morrison was saying at least years Gamescom you would know that he agrees with that assessment.

If AoC provided players with more than just grind grind grind perhaps it would actually stand a chance against the TOR freight train…I mean Funcom actually gets it where the Secret world is concerned they actually took what worked in AoC and built what will be a fun engaging MMO…you think they would have the motivation to go back and apply that to this game.

Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:38PM Jef Reahard said

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@Dunraven

I'd actually love more MMO story, but not variety that BioWare is pimping via TOR. Stories should be created by the players, in fact that's the only reason to play an MMO instead of a single-player game (which is a superior story-telling medium to an MMO).

When I'm playing Fallout, Mass Effect, etc., I'm digging the stories and I'm under the illusion that I'm a hero making a difference even though people all around the world are experiencing the same story. What BioWare's doing with TOR is quite silly (to me, ofc) because all those people experiencing that exact same storyline are right there visible in my game world, lol.

It's a joke when it comes to story immersion.

Not really the crux of this particular article, though.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 1:57PM Dblade said

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@Dunraven You are going to get the grind grind grind yourself. Bioware is not going to be able to maintain fully voiced story updates with any reasonable frequency, so expect a lot of grindish endgame stufff to disguise the fact that its too expensive and time consuming to add story.

TOR's long term draw is going to be its endgame, and that's not going to be story.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 2:24PM Dunraven said

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@Jef Reahard You know I keep hearing this Stories should be created by the player but nine times out of ten the only story that gets created is I am a serial killer in search of acquisition with the occasional ERP plot line thrown in and the reason it is like that because a big ass empty world dose very little to inspire a personal story.

Hell look at SWG, SOE gave the players the most powerful set of Role Playing tools ever with the Story teller system and wheat did 98% of them do with it? Either ignored it all together or used it to create the same tired ass Twil'ek S&M guild,

What more and more people want today is to be dropped into an immersive set of circumstances where their decisions determine the outcome, it makes them want to know what happens next instead of just hanging out all day twirling their lightsaber at the shuttle bay.

If players creating their own story was indeed popular we would have a Sandox MMO today with 12.5 million players, but we don’t, we don’t quite simply because Sanbox MMO’s are boring and are only fun for a very nice audience.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 2:25PM Dunraven said

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@Dblade I have been beta testing for over a year I have not once felt like I have had to grind and the endgame in TOR is so accessible to everyone people will gladly do that until Bioware hands them more story which they fully intend to do.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 2:40PM Jef Reahard said

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@Dunraven

I dunno, I get the feeling you're pulling the 98%/Twilek S&M bit out of your ass instead of basing it on actual experience.

You're right that sandboxes and player-driven stories are niche, but niche doesn't equal bad. It's personal preference, ultimately. Most people are like you and not bothered by a dozen different stories shared by millions of people in the same gameworld.

I find it pretty ridiculous and the opposite of immersive. /shrug
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:09PM (Unverified) said

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@Jef Reahard I'm interested to hear what your definition / example of a great immersive story that is "created by the player" is exactly?
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:25PM Dunraven said

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@Jef Reahard Whoa there cowboy; it wasn't my intention to strike a nerve with the S&M comment, but anyone that played SWG for any period of time knows there were quite a few ERP guilds and I never said it was a bad thing just not something that mainstream gamers are into...and I never said it was bad just not what the majority of gamers are looking for these days

But that also doesn't mean it takes someone of a superior refined palate to appreciate Sandboxes either and most folks are way beyond tired of Fans of that genre suggesting that it is.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:34PM JayDay said

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@Dblade

"Bioware is not going to be able to maintain fully voiced story updates with any reasonable frequency"

The game hasn't even been released to have a track record. You have no knowledge of the future so your insight is blatantly ignorant.

Content and story is the hallmark of Bioware. That's what they do best in game design. It will be no different for TOR update to update. Bioware will continue with both improving and quality updates. So my crystal ball will tend towards Bioware updating content just fine.

Facts are SWG had around 15K subs left. It's dead. Age of Conan isn't much better. They launched with 2/3 more servers than they have now. That alone shows what happened to AoC. WoW, if that's where you are coming from, will just continue to be WoW. That's not a bad thing, it's just WoW after all.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:39PM Jef Reahard said

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@(Unverified)

Lol, that would take a year's worth of columns, probably more. The group of gamers I've been playing with since the early 2000s have created all kinds of in-game story-arcs and roleplaying events, many of which involved dozens of people simultaneously and (in games that allowed it) affected the game world in small ways.

It seems like people who don't roleplay or who have never taken the time to participate in (or create) a community like that often have this snarky attitude that player-driven stories can't exist, or if they do exist, they're somehow inferior to dev-written narratives (in my experience the opposite is true).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy BioWare stories as much as the next person, but they don't belong in MMOs imo. They're very much of the solitary-hero-saves-the-world school of fiction, and to me at least, it's like oil and water when you mix that kind of storytelling with a static world and thousands of players who all have the exact same experience.

If you want to look, and you're not married to big-budget AAA titles, you'll find all kinds of player-driven stories in the MMO space, though certainly less nowadays than when the games actually supported such activities.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:44PM Jef Reahard said

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@Dunraven

You didn't strike a nerve tbh, you simply sounded uninformed, lol.

I agree that it doesn't take a refined palate to appreciate a sandbox, in fact that's why I said it's down to personal preference.
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Posted: Dec 11th 2011 3:51PM BigAndShiny said

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@JayDay

So Bioware who manage to release like 3 hours of dlc for their single player games every 4 months are goign to be able to get 16 voice actors in for 20 hours each month to record dialogue with another 30 voice actors for a couple of story instances that the playerbase will finish in a couple days?

sure.
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