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Reader Comments (111)

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:12PM heerobya said

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I'd have to agree.

Story really does change EVERYTHING.

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:56PM pid said

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@heerobya

I frowned on this but after beta I realized it's true. You kill 10 rats but with a reason! That's just different than doing it without knowing why, because you can't afford the effort to read through tortious and long quest texts.

And if you follow the thread of your character it becomes a whole cohesive experience where you aren't suddenly doing an errand ("take my bow back, it was taken from my ancestor's chest by an unknown thief") but you are trying to please another character (NPC) to move him to trust and help you.

It's difficult to explain but once immersion kicks in it "feels" totally different. I read EVERY quest over and over in RIFT because I wanted to enjoy it to it's fullest, but it was not cohesive. This "cohesion" of the story/quests has little to do with the text/voice over tec. It's a matter of writing, because even the voice overs have to be written first.

TL;DR: there is "plot" in the quests that gives sense (logos) and emotion (pathos) resulting in a "theatratical experience" that can be enjoyed much more than when there is no plot.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 4:36PM BigAndShiny said

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@pid
" If you don't like this game, you don't like video games"
Really? I'm sorry? If I don't like non action combat with a predictable story, 2 raids, 15 instances, 30 levels less than the competition, less endgame and less sandbox features as well as worse graphics than it, I don't like video games?

I am one of Bioware's biggest fans and I can guarantee ill be picking up ME3 on launch day. I also love MMOs. But taking an RPG with a bad story, and putting it in an MMO with less content than the competition is not going to cut it the year before we see soooo much innovation.

And, ladies and gentlemen, story changes everything until you get to around level 35 when you realise that listening to 20 minutes of VO to get your 10 grindy quests isn't fun anymore. Or when you reroll a different class to experience a new story and you find out...... 90% of quests are the same.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 6:23PM Solar Jetman said

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@pid "I frowned on this but after beta I realized it's true. You kill 10 rats but with a reason! That's just different than doing it without knowing why, because you can't afford the effort to read through tortious and long quest texts."

Quoted for exactly the reason I turned off subtitles. If I chose not to collect cat teeth, I made the decision based on the NPC not selling me on it, not because I hate performing dentistry on giant cats.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 6:56PM (Unverified) said

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@heerobya

Yeah, I really enjoyed the story on my trips through Beta. I also like how I could level doing pvp, so you can skip any non class quest that you do not want to do. I really hated those computer chips for example.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 9:42PM fattoyow said

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@BigAndShiny

90% of quests are the same in any MMO once you re-roll, that's why they roll out new content and BW will definitely be doing a lot of that.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 4:32PM Valkenr said

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@fattoyow

And it's even more apparent in single player story driven games

Warhammer IMO has one of the better leveling systems. For one, you have the majority of your class functionality by level 11, and can actually get a feel for how your class plays. TOR doesn't even give stealth characters a sneak attack with their stealth, or any attacks that behave differently if used in stealth.

Also with Warhamer you where given a glimpse of the entire game the moment you hit the RvR lake, and you are also able to do PvP matches from level 1. And you weren't thrown into PVP matches with much higher players. Atleast Mythic got that level 12 vs level 21 is the biggest gap your should force. And each race had their own leveling path.

SW:TOR on it's own is a story driven MMO, if you want people to make more than one character in a Story Driven MMO, they all need the majority of their stories to be different. SWTOR forces you to run story missions, with the last build of beta PvP was shafted for leveling.

The moment you start skipping through diologue, the game loses 90% of it's shine.

It would be wise for bioware to make the first update double the available leveling content, and have missions that aren't necessary, and would slow down leveling if we stayed to do them. Then the next update should double that. And the next update should have a better-than-swg space system, then the next update opens up the galaxy for exploration, and finally the next update(1 year after launch) breaks the chains and sends the game off it's rails, because 90% of the Story-driven players have had their fill of the game.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:17PM stamps79 said

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I put in over 60 hours w/ two classes during two beta runs and I was completely satisfied with my experience with the game and I'm very excited to get back in next Thursday and get my Darkside on. =)

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:18PM winterborn said

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It is just another MA/DA game in KOTOR skin and the bare minimum of cloned mmo features to justify a monthly sub.

Buy it and play it like the console quality single player story based game it is. It has about 2 monthes of that story if you are real slow so enjoy.

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:46PM Lucidus said

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@winterborn Your comment is bound to be fanboi'd to oblivion, but I can't dispute your assertions. It would've been an awesome single player game.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:48PM (Unverified) said

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@winterborn

Sadly, that's my opinion as well but a lot of folks seem thrilled so more power to them. And Larry... If you don't like this game, you don't like video games? I thought you were better than that. Different strokes?
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:50PM DancingCow said

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@winterborn

I don't think it's bad value for money because the story is really very good, but I agree. What they've done is top quality but apart from the story it's just more of the same of what we already have.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:53PM aurickle said

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@winterborn
"If you are real slow..."

...and if you don't play any other classes to experience their stories.

And by the way, the "clone" paradigm only fits if you don't ever play with other people, which is something you can't do with ME/DA. It's also something that makes conversations with NPC's unpredictable and often quite fun. I enjoyed the first beta weekend I was in and playing solo because I was really enjoying the story. But I enjoyed the second weekend even more when I was playing with a friend.

Honestly, I am startled by comments like yours every time I see them. They're MMORPG's, after all. Almost all share a common ancestry with single-player RPG's from back in the days before MMO's existed. Over time, the RPG part has faded away until people just call them MMO's now. BioWare is here making a concerted effort to put the RPG back into the genre, yet you're complaining that "it's just another RPG clone with the bare minimum of MMO features". Really?

From my perspective, this is the first RPG that has ever been built as an MMO. Or the first MMO that has ever been built as an RPG. Put another way, it's the first true MMORPG -- and for me, that's pretty cool.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 4:59PM BrappZannigan said

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@winterborn
"It has about 2 monthes of that story if you are real slow so enjoy."

Because they won't be adding any more content after it launches...
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 8:53PM chum said

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@(Unverified)

So a comment that encourages people to play a game they enjoy even if it's not for the poster and calls out the author for an ignorant statement gets downvoted. You Tor fans are a new breed.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 9:50PM Mystal said

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@BrappZannigan

Actually, it remains to be seen whether or not they're going to add any of the kind of content you see while leveling. If they are, it remains to be seen what carrot they'll offer as a reward in place of XP.

From everything I've seen so far (and everything Bioware has talked about) there seems to be a pretty big disconnect between the story driven "early game" and the raid/PvP centric "end game."

Either they're counting on players not really minding or noticing the big shift at end game, or they have a whole mode or modes of play that they've yet to reveal (seems unlikely to me).

I am open to being surprised, but right now I have to agree that the game is likely going to appeal to me for a few months, until I've exhausted the basic story on each side, then it'll be the same old same old that I fled WoW to get away from. Raiding's a little tired, in my opinion.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2011 1:46AM Dblade said

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@BrappZannigan Story content, especially fully voiced story content, is time intensive and expensive as heck. Considering they will have to make multiple story paths for each of the classes if they release new quest content, well, don't expect it fast. Even FFXI didn't voice their content or make all of it different based on morality and class.
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:18PM PiRunner said

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Its nice to see it doing well. Nothing you say is unexpected, and I hope the issues you pointed out are fixed at some point, along with various others.
Still i'd give anything to play it today, if for no other reason then to stop drooling over the game and looking at my watch.

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:25PM (Unverified) said

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nice article.skipping over story just to get to eg is quite lame.i understand the reasoning,its lame anyways.just having a lightsaber,or be able to fasttrack to eg with a lightsaber just inst enough.this is a bioware game its all about the STORY.your supposto be enjoying it,if your not whats the point in playing?server firsts?kinda lame really.

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:58PM JCSmith said

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@(Unverified)

I liked the game in general. Wasn't anything revolutionary but it was very solid. But I did have a comment with regards to skipping over the story.

The first time you play, absolutely get the story. However, while the starter planet may be 50% class quests (unique), the other half are shared by everyone. You'll find yourself skipping through that.

Once you get to the capitol planet, that ratio goes to something like 25% class, 75% world. From there it goes to something like 10% class and 90% world. Your almost certainly going to skip all that stuff the second time around. I found myself skipping everything except for the class stuff and when I got the response I'd read the last thing they said and generally your responses are always going to be the same. 1 - goo, 2 - neutral, 3 - evil. And the reality is, if you want to go light or dark, you can't really always choose what you would choose. Sometimes what you think you should choose may mess up your alignment.

The story is pretty good. But I doubt many will be watching the cinematics the second time through content, except for class quests.
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