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Reader Comments (41)

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 1:31PM Anax said

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I left Aion specifically because the relentless PvP turned me off. I got tired of logging in for a half-hour of fun on a weeknight and ending the evening in serious debt due to all of the rez fees I'd paid to the people 15 levels higher than me who'd entertained themselves by two-shotting me all night. It was not fun at all. I *never* won in PvP, because the only people who attacked me were those who were way above my level and sure to win.

The amount I had to spend on PvP-induced rez fees totally negated my ability to save up to buy or craft better gear so that I could take on those who so frequently killed me.

I'd only ever play another open PvP game if there was some built-in mechanic to prevent high-level players from ruthlessly farming low-level ones. I know I'll be flamed for being a 'carebear' and told to go back to WoW (a game I've never played). I think there are a lot of other PvE carebears like me who find that games like Aion are totally ruined by PvP. I liked a lot about Aion. It had features I've never found in other games and I was sad to find that the PvP ruined it for me.

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 1:51PM (Unverified) said

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@Anax

I agree.

open world pvp where higher level players can just farm lower level players, even if for NO reward, just breeds griefing.

There should be a flag/option that you can choose to set, that will not allow players x levels above you to attack you. i bet 99.99% of players would set this flag. Only the the ones calling folks carebears, would complain, as they are probably the same folks doing the griefing. So be it.

I have heard all the options, "the community will band together and punish the griefers", this doesn't happen in the real world.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 1:53PM gravy69 said

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@Anax

i whole heartly agree, i felt the same way. in aion you was golden till level 20 that you where thrown into a zone where you would get ganked while your trying to level by someone 10level higher. if you was lucky you might find someone your level, but most of the time they where on the same mission you was on the other side trying to level too. i left the game at the point where id log in and maybe get one or two quest then get killed, yea so much fun .... its bullshit.
some time went by they changed it , now pvp isnt forced onto you till around 35+ still the same outcome tho. pvp should be kept separate from pvp cut and dry. ill pvp when i want to or if ever, this is why this game still sucks ass for the common player.
i played the game off and on for over a year still never got to 55. my highest was a 52 temp. plus got full deva armor too. the grindfest is just stupid needs more quest or xp from them one, other than that the game is an awsome game, the combat is so fun and and the solo dungeons were fun as hell
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:05PM (Unverified) said

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@gravy69

here's a good way to look at it. In a PvE environment do they stick mobs in there that are 10 levels above the players running around in that area. No they'd be crazy and people would not want to play the game. So why is this considered ok for PvP?
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:11PM Anax said

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@(Unverified) I believe I was level 43 when I left Aion. I had been level 43 for a long time at that point because I couldn't progress. I had been trying to farm nodes for materials to craft better armor but opposing players were farming me for AP. It was just ridiculous. There was definitely not a community of people in my faction (Elyos) who were protecting me from highly-geared level 50s.

Some might hope that social mechanisms will spontaneously develop to halt griefing, but in months and months of playing Aion, I saw no evidence of it.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:16PM aurickle said

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@Anax
Believe me, I hear where you're coming from. I have no problem whatsoever with PvP so long as it's a reasonably fair fight. The problem is that I have yet to play an MMO where that is what you got.

Most of my time (about 5 years) in WoW was on PvP servers. I can count on one hand the number of times I was attacked by players of approximately my level. (Unless they were in a war band, in which case they were full groups specifically targeting solo or duo players and avoiding other groups like the plague.) I did, however, long since lose count of the number of times I got steamrolled by someone who was a skull to me. I particularly remember a duo who were notorious for hanging out around Southshore and Tarren Mill, killing anyone they saw who was 30 levels lower than them. Of course, if someone of equal level showed up, they vanished.

I have a friend who loves PvP but lasted all of 10 minutes on one of EQ2's PvP servers because he no more than stuck his nose out of Freeport before being flattened repeatedly by high level characters who apparently had nothing better to do with their time than kill lowbies.

With AoC we played on one of the PvE servers. Within a month or two of launch the vast majority of our guild was actually refugees from the PvP servers who'd gotten tired of not being able to even complete the Tortage content because they were mercilessly ganked the moment they stepped onto White Sands Isle.

It's a story I've seen played out in game after game. If there aren't restrictions on open world PvP then there will be people for whom great entertainment is found by making the game less entertaining for others. And even if the majority of players do typically only attack those who are worth XP to them, there are still enough "Red is Dead" folks to spoil things.

It's just not a fun thing to have your fun literally be at the mercy of those who have none. Until a developer implements mechanisms to punish the sociopaths, I simply have no interest in playing games where a significant chunk of content is cut off from me simply because I want to play fair.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:25PM Chiren said

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@aurickle
" I can count on one hand the number of times I was attacked by players of approximately my level."

If my hand no fingers, then yes, I could say the same.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:27PM (Unverified) said

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@Anax

First of all, when you die to PvP, your res cost is 1 kinah, so either you died a LOT, or you're confusing it with your normal deaths in between.

Secondly, I'm not sure the last time you played, but NCsoft has since added large defensive buffs to the rifting areas. These buffs are only removed once ever few weeks as part of a rifting event and while active almost stop rifting PvP completely.

That said, you will still have players in the Abyss of much higher level who have free reign, but with all the new solo content and quests added, the Abyss isn't nearly as necessary of a leveling step as it used to be.

Even the end game zones take measures to protect you against PvP now. Inggison and Gelkmaros both have 3 sections of varying PvP. The section closest to the fortresses is open PvP (if the other faction owns BOTH of their forts and makes the trek through another zone to fight you.) The middle zone is more difficult to get to and has a higher concentration of guards. The last zone is completely PvP free.

Aion is a very different game than it was back at launch. There are new instances that never require you to even leave the main cities and the new Arenas allow you to PvP on your own terms when you want to. If PvP is the only thing that made you stop, I think you'll find that there are a lot of improvements to both PvP and the rest of the game that make it worth another look.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:29PM (Unverified) said

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@Anax

It's funny. ALL games start implementing ways to address the high level players ganking low levels. No rewards, negative rewards....

Why not just stop it period, make all zone level ranged.

The problem is that leveling and open world PVP do not mix well. Developers need to think outside the box.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:34PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified) (talking about how rift is better now than at launch regarding pvp)

Sounds like they curbed open PvP where highbies can demolish lowbies, which EVERY single game that wants a large playerbase will do eventually.

perhaps have different zones, based on level, on same server, one is pure pvp, other is pure pve. there will be a mix of like minded folks on each, and from time to time, there will be cross over, but there will not be constant griefing.

Open world pvp with out level restrictions is never going to work or last in a game with leveling.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 4:03PM DarkWalker said

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@Chiren

Something I would love to see other games implement for PvP is what GW2 will be implementing for it's (PvE) leveling zones: the zones will have a level cap, and anyone above the cap entering the zone will be reduced to an appropriate power level for the zone. Players simply won't be able to go back to a lowbie zone and one-shot things.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 4:17PM Sukiyaki said

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@Anax

Funny... half a dozen "agree" with the complaint about "ganking" being annoying due to ominous "rezzing fees from PvP deaths" as refereed to as ganking.

Yet only one before me who seems to have played the game long enough/at all and realized there effectively is actually no "rezzing fee" from PvP in Aion.

Leave alone theoretical and potential "AP loss on death" (some age old ragequitter still are keen to bring up as negative argument even today), if mixed up as "rezzing fees" has turned low on relevance with relic based AP over a year ago and became pretty much irrelevant today. And instanced PVP crippling World PVP only boosted that.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 6:35PM shodannet said

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@Anax I completely know where youre coming from. What sucked even more was that as a templar, PvP meant "just bend over and take it". Safety in numbers meant little against twinks (who ganked for a living); I remember many times when a popular farming zone (Im actually happy to have forgotten the zone names now) was completely shut down because the 20+ of us were unable to stop a pair of decked out high level gankers.
When I played Rift, I actually was OK with the open world PvP as a group of lowbies had a significantly better chance at taking on a high level ganker, as well as I COULD SWITCH BETWEEN TANK AND MELEE DPS (and even then a Rift tanker could survive longer than an Aion tanker)
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:16PM Irem said

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Eh, this reminds me a bit of Jef's opinion pieces on how sandboxes would be much better if RPers would just get over the whole FFA PvP thing and do it anyway. There's sort of a "you don't know if you don't like broccoli until you've tried it!" tone going on in both cases, when frankly a lot of people know they don't like PvP because, well, they've tried PvP, and it wasn't for them. I can tell you one of my biggest problems is being able to -find- a group of mellow people who "do not blow a gasket when I make a mistake."

I like PvP in some cases, but I'm not really seeing anything here that would make it anything more than bearable for someone who honestly doesn't like the playstyle and will never be a big fan. I very rarely see people avoid what is, for them, an otherwise perfect game based on the mere -presence- of PvP, but if something they can't stand is a major part of what they'll be doing for the life of the game if they want to progress, how is it unreasonable that they'd pass it by? We don't blink an eye at people who drop a game because there's too much grind, so why shouldn't they avoid a game that has too much of something else they don't like?

I mean, in one breath you're encouraging people to soldier ahead and take what the game offers them apart from PvP, and in the next there's this cute bit about how people shouldn't "whine" because they can't experience the entire game without doing stuff they don't want to, because the game doesn't cater to their playstyle. Maybe that's why they're not playing it in the first place? Especially since there are other games with comparable features that -do- cater to their playstyle?

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:47PM (Unverified) said

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@Irem

PvP is fun, but ganking is not. I have played with carebears in pvp, and they enjoyed it, but ONLY when it was fair

no one like relentless ganking.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 3:56PM DarkWalker said

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@(Unverified)
I play PvP only if it's balanced and completely consensual; given those constraints, I actually like PvP.

Otherwise, I simply don't do PvP. To the point the only way to get me to fight in World PvP is if I see a ganker I can easily defeat. I won't help anyone (even real life friends) gank anyone else, I will never attack unprovoked, I only help other same faction players if I'm sure they were attacked first and we can dispatch the attacker(s) with ease (if the same faction player attacked first, it's his problem; I'm not going to help in any way, and usually will be silently hooting for the enemy).
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Posted: Dec 6th 2011 12:42AM Jeromai said

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@Irem

Yep, I have that problem too. Finding a group of people, even. They don't even have to be that mellow. My timezones just doesn't coincide with most. And since 1 vs many fights are quite predictably skewed in favor of never winning, it becomes quite pointless to even try.

That said, I did enjoy my time in Aion, PvP and all, on Nezekan when it was full of Oceanic players and PuGs were easily formed and people were actively both attacking and defending on an even level. Hell, I called it a victory when I got away from a notorious ganker group by chilling on a bridge surrounded by 4 NPC guards when everyone else in the area got bulldozed.

Ultimately, I asked myself whether I liked the endgame playstyle of PvP. Battle back and forth over some excuse, and the answer was that I didn't really like the moment-to-moment fight and endless win some, lose some combat. It was interesting to experience, and I got some good stories out of it, but it wasn't something I wanted to keep playing for months on end. So I decided not to push past the (at the time) insane xp slope at level 43ish.
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Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:30PM silver001 said

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I pvp'd in aion for over 2 years. But I wasn't really a PvPer. I love PvP but Pvping in that game was just so worthless. You people in Pvp gear +10, with a godstone that can 1 shot you even with PvP defense. you got others that use hacks to get an advantage then you got the usual, in balances between classes that makes some classes better at PvP. Finally, you got the scrub PvPers willing to have spies on the other factions so they can get an advantage or start gaming the system by medal trading. Let me just add that, on zikel you got the asmo faction that wont STFU even if they are bad and over geared they still complain.

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 2:32PM Anax said

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Well, it's been a long while since I played Aion (more than a year, I believe). I played soon after launch for several months and then gave up. I don't remember the rez fees, but I do remember that some cost associated with PvP deaths was dissolving my budget for other expenses. I seem to remember that there was some adjustment in the death penalties while I was subscribed. I definitely remember that, night after night, I'd log out further behind on the gear and XP curve than I had been when I logged in, getting further and further from having actual fun.

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 3:14PM Dblade said

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@Anax Same. A lot of the cost for newbies wasn't so much rez fees when I played, as travel costs. I played pre 3.0, and you couldn't even stick your head out o the 10-25ish villages without rifter twinks ganking you from stealth. Aion PvP was horrid too, with certain classes much easier to play with than others.

Keep in mind too that Aion had to utterly destroy rifting to get people to stay. i was one of the people who left because you couldn't level at all. I mean, I could do my thing solo in EVE in fairly populated lowsec, but I couldn't even level in Aion. That's how bad rifting was in its prime.
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