| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (24)

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 6:40PM Space Cobra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I don't mind twinking and use it, but some players don't like it. Just surprised the Devs are supporting it when most "hard-core" players think you should go out into the world, even if it is the fifty-first time, with a loincloth and a toothpick, and that includes the women!

;P

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 7:11PM NeverDeath said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Space Cobra

I don't care how other people do it, until it effects my play experience, like it would on a PvP server in a gear-driven game. Of course, in games like WoW, you don't have to worry about that as much because nobody is in the world, they are chain-queuing instances so you have a bigger chance of being ganked by a skull who is leveling herbalism than of fighting someone your actual level.

In games like WoW where the game world is pretty much an over-sized lobby that becomes entirely passable once you learn to fly at 60, twinking is no longer a problem unless you want to play in battlegrounds in a given bracket, because you will be destroyed by people just because of their large passive power differential.

It's not that I think other people should HAVE to replay content on alternate characters 55 times in a loincloth and wielding a toothpick, it's that for me, I don't enjoy having everything handed to me. In MMOs I frequently roll on brand new servers and start fresh, just because I like to build up my resources, my contacts, everything from scratch and have a "new" experience. I don't like having items handed down from my last character, it ruins the fun of gaining new items as I level, especially in the case of WoW's heirlooms. On a side note while I'm mentioning heirlooms, I always found it exceedingly comical that most of the bad players who suck have full heirlooms, yet the number of people who seem to think it signifies some level of competency and experiential knowledge is considerable, which only compounds the lulz.

If a game were based on PvP, which WoW never was and probably never will be, then twinking would really piss me off no matter who did it, at least if it was able to create passive power differentials as big as the ones in low level brackets in games like WoW. Because it's not a PvP game, it can get away with it, and because the game world is dead, it will usually not effect anyone outside of low level battlegrounds, which mostly only twinks ever participate in anyway. For games that wish to have strong competitive multiplayer, twinking is ridiculous and a bad idea. For games that are more cooperative (ala PvE), it's a much less controversial issue.
Reply

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 7:38PM djodars said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@NeverDeath That's because you never played when WoW was fun and challenging (1-60 vanilla). The world was FULL of people and open PvP was crazy fun. The instances were also freaking hardcore compared to the shit they are nowadays.
Reply

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 7:41PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@NeverDeath

we get it, you don't like wow, but what about diablo 3?
Reply

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 8:50PM DevilSei said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Space Cobra

Honestly... I think the main reason they are supporting the idea of twinking main characters may have something to do (as does most every other bad choice made for the game) with the real money Auction House. It'll be a lot easier to sell the twink gear through it, much more profitable, which means Blizzard will be getting a cut of the cash.

Looking at World of Warcraft, I wouldn't be surprised by it though. The economy in that game was rather friendly towards the lvl19 gear that was good as it could be for it. It also sucked great big donkey things when, as a simple lvl 18 warrior, you went up against a lvl 19 Rogue with 1200 health and 80-90% crit rate.
Even worse when the entire side was made up of said uber-twinks.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:08AM NeverDeath said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@djodars

LOL. I never played from launch day for 3 and a half years solid until I felt the free badge gear ruined the game and quit around WOTLK launch? Oh, I see. Thank you for telling me that. I know all about how it *USED* to be, in fact in many of my posts, that is one of my major points - that anything good about that game only exists in the past-tense.

Now that you've made horribly incorrect assumptions, please arrive at your point?
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 9:47AM Ehra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@DevilSei

Ooooor. It could be because it's been a huge part of both Diablo and Diablo 2. It's obviously an aspect of the series that people enjoy, so it would be stupid of them to not support of this time around as well.


And FFS, people. Blizzard does NOT get a "cut of the cash" on sales made on the RMAH. It'd be nice if people would spend half the amount of time they do making up conspiracy theories about video game features as they do actually reading about how they will work.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/events/diablo3-announcement/index.html#auction:auction-faq

"A nominal fixed transaction fee will be deducted from the seller for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. Because the listing portion of the fee is charged even if the item doesn’t sell, it will be in the seller’s interest to list items he or she believes other players will be interested in, and to do so at a competitive price. Specific details related to the transaction fee for the currency-based auction house will vary by region and will be announced at a later date.
Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We’ll have further details on this as well at a later date. "

The only thing they charge is a flat listing fee and another flat fee when the item is sold. Notice how both are FLAT FEES. They do not get any portion of the money the item is actually being sold for. In addition, they will also be giving away waivers for the listing fee.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 1:32PM NeverDeath said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

Uh, I just outlined most of my concerns, all one has to do is think logically and they'll realize which issues do and do not apply to Diablo III. Traditionally in Diablo, the items you found were almost entirely randomized, making it so that if you wanted to "twink" an alternate character, the only way to really do it was to save up gear you found and give it to that character. Really, the only way to ensure you'd find something was to get a white and use your Charsi imbue (which could and often did suck).

Also, there was no level freezing and no level-segregated pvp areas, which meant you could always be eaten by a bigger fish anyway, unlike battlegrounds or fixed settings within MMOs like WoW's battlegrounds. There was also no crafting, which Diablo III evidently will have, so again, it was really a lot of work, aimlessly killing or picking things up as you went and saving them, but usually a lot of grinding in specific level areas if you wanted a bunch of things your alt could use at a certain level. It wasn't controlled, and of course since you didn't have to play with other people in your game if you didn't want to join with others or host an open game... Well obviously, you can see the differences between WoW and Diablo, why it works for one and why twinking was impossible in the other.

Now with the real cash AH, it opens up a whole new series of potential pitfalls, unless they include some smart options, like the option for a host to block joiners who have used the real cash shop. Even the normal AH is a bit of a stretch for some players who liked the old ways of organized chaos and the randomness of treasure hunting, and fighting other people who were largely victims of their own fate as well - but at least with the normal AH, you're using money you earned in the game.

The bottom line is that in their game, it works, whereas Diablo III isn't out yet, and we don't know a full list of game mode/host options and other features that could protect players without forcing them to never play in/host open games for fear of being slain by cash shop whores and characters loaded with crafted hand-me-downs. They also haven't said whether or not they will be instituting the dreaded heirloom system from WoW, which would amplify these potential disasters. Call me a purist, but the reason I liked Diablo was that it was gritty, and you had two ways of getting the items you wanted : Good old fashioned hard work and dedication via slaughter, or interaction with other players which required that you have something they want in return - not auction house interfaces and player-run cash shops.

I think we all know that what Blactivision has done to WoW with the gutting of WoW and their choice to make it the easiest MMO on the market for the purpose of expanding their player base by pandering to casuals, their choice to release the Starcraft II campaigns as separate games with separate price tags, their statement that when they make Warcraft IV they will do the same with its campaigns, and now with their real money AH cash grab where they make money every time you post an auction/it sells/it expires. How can I not worry that their choices in handling Diablo will ruin a game I was anticipating for many years, when all of their decisions in recent memory have been borne of greed instead of setting a precedence for a premium quality user experience, which USED to be Blizzard's modus operandi?
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 2:54PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ehra : while your post about the flat fees is indeed correct, is there anything about "flat fees" vs. DevilSei's phrase "Blizzard will be getting a cut of the cash" that makes the slightest bit of difference to the point he was trying to make?

His suggestion is:

* Twinking encourages vigorous AH trading
* AH trading (on the RMAH) makes money for Blizzard
* Therefore Blizzard encourages twinking

Argument is the same regardless of whether Blizz gets 50c or 5% per sale.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 9:14PM Ehra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

As I pointed out in my post, twinking has been a part of the Diablo series from the beginning. So, on that point, no they are not encouraging twinking to make money; they're encouraging twinking because people expect it from a Diablo game. Blizzard has been encouraging twinking before the RMAH existed.

Secondly; one of the great things about twinking is that it's so easy to do. Anyone can log onto their level 50+ character and kill a bunch of normal mode bosses for their new characters. I can't imagine you're going to be seeing a booming real money market for twink gear when the ingame gold AH also exists. Especially once you consider that sellers would have to charge enough to make up for whatever the seller's fee ends up being (plus the listing fee if they're out of waivers).
Reply

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 7:05PM EdmundDante said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Wow - good advertising. I just ordered that book.

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 7:55PM DarkWalker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The best pieces of info from this interview (for me): all difficulties soloable (even Inferno), shared gold and crafters across all characters.

I'm prone to skip it, though, due to the fact it won't have off-line play. I don't like the idea of playing with whatever lag there is to their servers, being unable to play a single player game if my net start acting up, etc.

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 7:44AM KvanCetre said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@DarkWalker
I think the biggest concern will be if the servers have a weekly maintenance cycle. I've never played Diablo as a single player series. If I wanted to play alone, I just created private games. Having a separate set of characters that I can't use my shared stash with seems like a waste, in my own opinion.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 8:13AM DarkWalker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@KvanCetre

I would prefer to have an off-line option for a number of reasons:

- I'm not that much into the multiplayer aspect of a game in the Diablo style, unless I'm playing with real life friends. For games like that, I usually don't create or join random groups.

- I like experimenting. Mods, building customized characters, etc. In fact, the most fun I had with Diablo 2 were it's mods. With an online-only game, most likely gameplay-altering mods won't be available.
(this is also a big part of the reason I didn't play much online. I had to choose between using mods or using online play. Mods won every time.)

- I live in a country where the absolute minimum ping to a US-based server is in the 200 range, and Blizzard doesn't have any servers here (the closest/lowest ping ones are the US servers). This means I will have 200ms lag even when playing single player, more if my net connection is acting up.

- I loved playing cooperative multiplayer in Diablo 2, with friends, using specially made characters for the occasion. Being able to jump to any level, with a set of appropriate level characters, of whichever class we wanted, and using appropriate gear was a really good way to experience the game, since our "real" characters were always so mismatched in levels and gear it made playing together impractical; it also allowed we to try the game with different party builds. Constructing or manipulating characters like that is considered cheating, though, and thus will most likely be impossible under the online-only Diablo 3.

In the end, if Diablo 3 is online only, I'm quite likely to not play it. If Blizzard adds support for mods and cheats, as well as local servers, I might get the game - but then, since using mods would most likely render a character unusable for the normal online play, I would not participate in that.

In fact, as long as D3 is going to be online-only, I'm trying to push my friends towards GW2 instead, for a simple reason: that game will adjust down the power level of any high level character entering lowbie zones/instances. This means going back to play with a friend will not cheese up the experience; the reduced (and matched) power level should keep everyone, even the lowbies, meaningful for the group, and the content challenging enough to be fun, even with grossly mismatched character levels.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:38PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@DarkWalker : one additional thing about "online only". Due to this decision, sadly, I will never, ever play Diablo III hardcore mode.

In Diablo II, I played a mix of softcore and hardcore. Nothing compared to the adrenaline rush of hardcore, but then, sometimes you just wanted to have fun and smash monsters and not play with absolute eagle-eyed focus - so softcore filled that role.

But online only? No way. I am NOT going to set myself up for the experience of losing a cherished hardcore character due to a internet dropout or lagspike. Losing one to poor play is horribly painful but that's what the game is all about. Losing one to network issues would make me uninstall and never play again.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 3:52PM DarkWalker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

Another problem with Hardcore and online play: if your computer crashes, you are not controlling your character anymore, but the game is still running on the server - and if you wasn't in a quite safe place to begin with, you may bide your character good bye.

Sincerely, if I got to play D3, I would avoid hardcore characters like the plague.

They (obviously) will insist on never taking any risk whatsoever (thus draining a good part of the fun in the game, at least for me), and if they do happen to die, they are out of the group for good (and, if they perceived any failing on my part leading to their demise, I could be set for a very long verbal abuse). I wouldn't want that headache.

Not sure how many would be in groups, though. In both MMOs I play with an achievement for not dying, the first rule of any guide to those achievements is often "don't group".
Reply

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 8:41PM Khalus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You know, I too was a little skeptical of the 'online only' part because I've always played Diablo, Diablo II and Starcraft offline solo or on occasion during a LAN party back in the day.

However, I decided to purchase Starcraft II last week when it was on sale for $29.99 and not only has it been an amazing game thus far, but I love the way Battle.net is setup.

Allowing me to be playing the campaign 'solo of course' and when I get bored of getting my ass handed to me while attempting to defeat a certain achievement, I can very quickly switch to multiplayer and load up a game of Tower Defense or any number of other games or a multiplayer match to better hone my skills moments later.


I've always had a great uninterrupted net connection, and I never use cheat codes so it really doesn't bother me having to be logged into Battle.net while playing, and in all honesty, it doesn't even feel like I'm online most the time.

I'm now greatly looking forward to playing Diablo III ever more, and concerning the real money trading and rich wankers that will buy their way to the top ~ who fucking cares! ~ {it doesn't effect or impact your gaming that much, if at all...} Just quit that room and join another, or create your own session 'locked' if need be, with friends that you know don't do that.

Anyway...

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 1:29AM Doran7 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"twinking out new characters"

I abject! twinking is halting level progression artifically at less than max level for the purpose of mastering that level and dominating other characters at that level or even higher.. while it can and does include such activities as getting the best gear you can find, gearing your character with the best gear is not "twinking".... that's just part of regular play.

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 2:17AM Kalis said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Doran7
Actually "twinking" is just the term that is used for when you equip a character in gear that is better than what they would be able to normally obtain at that level.
Reply

Posted: Dec 6th 2011 8:43AM Malagarr said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Doran7

Err...you must be new to MMOs. Personally, I remember Twinks with Dragon Loot...
Reply

Featured Stories

MMO Week in Review: Are you Elite or Dangerous?

Posted on Dec 21st 2014 8:00PM

EVE Evolved: EVE Online vs. Elite: Dangerous

Posted on Dec 21st 2014 6:00PM

WoW Archivist: A Glyphmas story

Posted on Dec 21st 2014 12:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW