| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Dec 2nd 2011 10:07PM mispoem said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
Bout time

Posted: Dec 2nd 2011 10:16PM Ehra said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
"You know who you are, we know who you are, and you now have your warning. We strongly advise you to take heed and reform your ways immediately. There will be no second chances."

So they know who these hackers are, they could ban them right now, the hackers knew that what they were doing was against the rules and could get them banned, but instead SoE is giving them a warning. Sounds like a second chance to me.

Great that they're working on the hacking problem, but I think it's a shame they just hand out the bans outright and use that as a warning for anyone else thinking of breaking the rules. Guild Wars had a similar problem a year or so ago, when suddenly there was a mass banning and Anet announced they had been monitoring the situation for awhile and keeping quiet while they figured out who was doing what. Plus there was the fun of having a giant grim reaper type spawn in and kill the bot/hacker in front of everyone to visualize the banning.

Guess they figure they don't want to risk losing all of that sub money.

Posted: Dec 2nd 2011 10:25PM Ehra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ehra

I think it's a shame that they DON'T just hand out band outright.


Maybe i should get some sleep :p
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 1:43AM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Ehra The fact of the matter is, when people feel free to cheat, that there is no consequence, and that everyone else is doing it, they are more likely to do it. These people aren't necessarily bad people. They just made a poor decision in an environment that encouraged that decision.

By creating an environment that actively discourages that decision, and handing out a broad warning to all, they give those people an opportunity to reform and play as intended. These people can still be quality members of the community.

Remember that EverQuest isn't a PVP focused game. The cheating done was, for the most part, non-malicious. It wasn't focused on winning a direct competition or ruining another person's day, it was focused on making the cheaters personal experience easier. It was things like watching the game client's bandwidth and creating a map of all the mobs in a zone, so you can watch for special mobs without tracking, or in extreme cases, making a character more powerful so as to kill NPCs they otherwise couldn't.

Unfortunately, these actions had a negative impact on the game as a whole, but it wasn't due to people being malicious, merely being selfish and lazy. Those are not positive attributes, but nor are they grievous sins, or ones that you can afford to be a hardline about in a community as small as EQ is now.

This allows people who simply succumbed to temptation a chance, while also setting up the future to ensure that cheaters are aware that they are engaging in a game of cat and mouse with their accounts' futures at stake.
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 5:55AM smartstep said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

Still I feel that game developer if want me to keep playing or return or try a game, then there should be more active with fighting bots and cheaters.

I don't care if it is PvE or PvP game.
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 7:04AM pcgneurotic said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ehra

I think you contradicted yourself man. First you said "...they know who these hackers are, they could ban them right now...I think it's a shame they just hand out the bans outright and use that as a warning for anyone else thinking of breaking the rules."

The way I interpreted the posting here was that they know who the cheats are, and they're warning them to stop now before they do get banned. Which, as you say, might be something to do with some of those cheats being long-term subbers who are bored or can't/won't break away from the game.
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 8:03AM Ehra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@pcgneurotic

Yes, I corrected myself in my second post.


@(Unverified)

"These people aren't necessarily bad people. They just made a poor decision in an environment that encouraged that decision."

Bull, the only thing that encouraged them to cheat is that they thought the rules that were already in place weren't going to be enforced. They knew they were giving themselves an unfair advantage over the other players and they did it anyway because they don't care.

I'm tired of these stupid "well if the game wasn't too hard then I wouldn't have to cheat!" excuses. If the game is too hard for you or you don't like the rules and you're not having fun then quit. It makes no sense to play choose to play a game as your pastime (you know, something you're supposed to do because you enjoy it) then insist you play by different rules than everyone else by using a hack.

But, like you said, the game can't afford to actually kick out that many people, which makes their "there will be no second chances" warning sound hallow (doubly so considering what they're doing right now is a second chance).
Reply

Posted: Dec 4th 2011 1:54AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ehra Firstly, don't put words in my mouth, I never said the game's difficulty was a valid reason to cheat. Secondly, don't speak to me as if I'm a cheater just because I don't support capital punishment for them in this specific case. I understand how easy it is to lose yourself in the argument and start slinging the word "you" around because you view me as the enemy, but I'm not, I'm just the devil's advocate here.

Now, on the matter at hand. Yes, a rule being unenforced DOES create an environment of encouragement. It's effect is twofold. Firstly, a lack of enforcement on the rule undermines it's importance. People see a lack of effort to enforce as an admission that the rule really doesn't matter. Second, lack of enforcement means the people who are doing it already are getting away with it. As the problem grows, it can seem as if you HAVE to cheat in order to stay competitive. If the problem grows far enough, it can become the NORM to cheat. When your regular group loses a rare spawn three times in a row to cheaters, and decides to cheat themselves, it can be a hard thing to do what's right. Sure, the right thing is to walk away, but peer pressure is a very difficult thing, even for adults.

I never said these people were right or justified in cheating. These people were wrong, plain and simple. However, I do believe in doling out punishment based on the entire circumstance, not simply the crime. The circumstance at hand was an environment that encouraged people who would otherwise never cheat to think it's OK to do.

If you deny that the way rules are enforced can change the moral outlook of an individual, then you are ignorant. If you claim that succumbing to temptation automatically makes one bad, or worthy of harsh punishment, then you are intolerant. Neither of those are admirable qualities.

Note that my exact quote to which you responded was, "These people aren't necessarily bad people. They just made a poor decision in an environment that encouraged that decision."

Are you then arguing that these people ARE strictly bad people? That their poor decision makes them incapable of being quality community members? You are wrong. Some of these people may be poxes upon the community, but those people will probably continue to break the rules and end up banned, or leave because they can't get away with it anymore. Some of them, however, are just misguided, and can use this opportunity to turn over a new leaf.

I applaud Sony for recognizing this and offering these people a chance. You claim it undermines their message, but it does not. They said there will be no SECOND chances, this is the first. They offer a clean slate, and say just don't mess up again. The people who deserve to be banned will fail to heed that message and end up as examples.

Honestly, have you never done something wrong because you thought there would be no consequence, or because you didn't understand the ramifications of your actions? If so, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was speaking to Jesus. Otherwise, think about how you like to be treated when you make an error in judgement. Zero tolerance is rarely a just or fair system.
Reply

Posted: Dec 4th 2011 10:32AM Ehra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

1) I wasn't replying directly to you. It was the "you" as in people that hide behind that argument.

2) Don't talk about putting words in someone's mouth when you keep going on about "oh how dare you say they're bad people for cheating in a video game." I didn't say that, I said they deserve to be banned from the game for cheating. They could be the greatest person ever; but if they're going to cheat then get rid of them. They knew the risk when they did it.

3) The only time anyone EVER tries to argue that a lack of enforcement of rules in an online game is an admitting that it's ok to break that rule are people who are trying to excuse their own breaking of that rule. If an action were ok then it wouldn't be explicitly disallowed in the game's rules.

4) This isn't real life. They're not poor, downtrodden people that are just victims of circumstance. They're people playing a game meant to be an enjoyable pastime and they decided to cheat, breaking the rules in the process. It doesn't matter whether they thought they'd be able to get away with it or not, or whether it was fair that "everyone else" was doing it and they weren't on equal standing. They still broke the rules and ruined other players' experience in the process. And, yes, they DID ruin other players' experience. Being able know that a rare mob has spawned without even being in the area, being able to teleport around to kill those mobs once they do appear. Those absolutely ruin the experience of people playing by the rules of the game.

When it comes to video game, zero tolerance absolutely is a fair system, especially when it comes to hacks. You know exactly what you're doing and risking when you do it.
Reply

Posted: Dec 4th 2011 10:33AM Ehra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

"They said there will be no SECOND chances, this is the first."

Actually, no. Their first chance was when they signed up to the game and agreed to not cheat.
Reply

Posted: Dec 5th 2011 11:08AM SnarlingWolf said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

Anyone who "feels the need to cheat because others do" is still pathetic scum who doesn't deserve to play a video game. It is as simple as that. Ban anyone who cheats permanently, no excuses, no warnings, no second chances.
Reply

Posted: Dec 2nd 2011 10:35PM Omali said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I wonder if this has anything to do with Ten Ton Hammer's article from earlier this year. http://www.tentonhammer.com/features/everquest/hacking-eq-part-one

Posted: Dec 2nd 2011 11:02PM Gondlyr said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Its been years since I played Maple Story but one thing they did that I liked was post all the character names that they banned.

If it was just gold farmers then most of us players wouldn't know the names most likely, but in some games you have people that use speed hacks, crafting cheats, xp cheats, radar in pvp games etc. Then you would see names of players you knew.

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 12:58AM real65rcncom said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"Stop now."

Somehow, this doesn't seem to carry much weight I don't think because:

1. Likely are stolen accounts
2. It's a F2P game

I doubt someone who is more than likely making money is going to be scared they are getting banned from a free game.

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 1:02AM Jenks said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@real65rcncom

EQ isn't F2P, its sequel is.
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 4:29AM real65rcncom said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Jenks

I didnt read that as carefully as I should have. There are so many versions of games called "EQ something", I mistakenly thought it was the F2P one.


Thanks
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 1:46AM Brainfreeze said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I wonder if this "warning" includes multi-boxing? This is what ruined EQ for me personally. I even went back last year when they unveiled the Fippy Darkpaw time-locked server. It was rampant with multi-boxers within 2 weeks.

I imagine that this won't include them, because frankly Sony could care less about server competitive balance. They never have, and they never will. It's all about subscriptions to them.

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 3:00AM Weiji said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Brainfreeze Multi-boxing isn't cheating...
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 3:08AM Brainfreeze said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Weiji It does ruin the server economy. You do understand this, right?
Reply

Posted: Dec 3rd 2011 3:10AM Brainfreeze said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
and yeah, to be honest, it is cheating. You're basically able to do what entire group (and even in some cases entire guilds) can do by yourself. It's complete against how MMOs are meant to be played.
Reply

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW