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Reader Comments (309)

Posted: Nov 25th 2011 10:40PM StClair said

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@DarkWalker
I have alts for that.

Single-player RPGs tend to have only one story line, with optional side quests etc. A good multiplayer game, IMO, will have more than one path worth of content worth following. Leveling two characters along two different story paths, each seeing and doing things the other did not, should be a pleasure rather than a chore. And at the end, one has two characters who can excel at their respective roles, rather than one character forced into a series of compromises to remain a generalist.

You seem to want one do-anything (indifferently) tool. I'd rather have a hammer AND a screwdriver AND a knife/cutting tool, which I can select from as needed.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 8:22AM Kalex716 said

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Yes, what I've heard from the NDA drop so far has changed my mind about wanting to buy in at release. From what I've heard, the story driven/quest content alone isn't going to be enough for me to want to play this anymore.

I just haven't been given reason to believe that style of content is going to satiate my longing for a MMO that sponsors and promotes people truly playing together, and fun emerging from interactions and "play" from its user base. I just don't believe in a modern MMO that doesn't leverage its people creatively to produce their own fun together is good enough anymore. Sure you can call what I'm looking for a sandbox, or whatever, i don't care... I'm bored with quest hubs, exclamation marks over dull NPC heads, and destinations the game draws for me on my map. Cool voice overs with irrelevant A' B' and C' choices isn't going to change the meat of it either.

While playing a world class singleplayer style engaging fed story alongside friends will no doubt be fun for a while (i'd probably even get my monies worth), once the ride stops I just don't see how this team can pipe new content fast enough (with the expectations that their costly content sets for itself) to allow that ride to continue on to justify monthly re-subscription. Re-rolling to play another classes story isn't going to be a new enough experience for me to want to try that approach either.

These are of course, my own personal decisions, and I appreciate and encourage people to continue to share their beta experiences. Both positive and negative reviews so far have been very helpful. Maybe I'll change my mind.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 12:29PM (Unverified) said

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@Kalex716 Your post and Darkwalker's are a prime example of why MMO gamers are NOTORIOUSLY hard to please. Yet you both have highly rated posts even though they are in complete contradiction of one another.

You want a game that encourages more grouping and working together, in a world where players are free to create their own content (which is absolutely a sandbox MMO - sorry, but it s). While Darkwalker wants the ability to be more self-reliant by being able to switch specs at will and be less dependent on others, and feels that the game is more or less forcing him to group up to get stuff done.

If BioWare made the game the way you wanted it be, people would cry that SWTOR does not cater to casuals or the solo player, and that there is forced grouping. While on the flipside, if BioWare made the game the way Darkwalker wants it, people would criticize it for just being a single player game with a multiplayer component and not a true MMO. This is the conundrum for almost every MMO company out there.

So what developers try to do is strike a balance between the two playstyles while acknowledging one simple universal truth: you can't please everyone.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 12:55PM Kalex716 said

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@(Unverified)

We're hard to please because we're still using this blanket term called "MMORPG's" from the early 2000's thats just not relevant anymore. And it still makes sense from a marketing perspective to keep the umbrella terminology, rather than isolate your audience at the risk of losing potential dollars.

Nevertheless, the winning scenario is still evident to me. You make a 100million dollar+ star wars game that shatters conventions, and shakes things up so much that our old and tired discussions of class balance this, leveling up that, and sandbox or treadmill or themepark is now completely irrelevant.

I suppose you can't buy that kind of brilliance though, you just have to get lucky. Thats the thing that bugs me about this most of all.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 6:11PM DarkWalker said

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@(Unverified)

I don't think you got my intentions right. It's not that I don't want to group. Instead, I want to be able to walk to a group that is lacking any role, and be able to fulfill that role. I want a game where players don't need to be denied the chance to group with their friends just because they picked the "wrong" class/AC/whatever a couple months ago.

Also, I want the grouping experience to be as seamless, as open, as possible. This is why I'm against loot rolls; they are a big drama source in groups, and I have seen a few raids dissolve due to looting conflicts. It's why I love the idea of sharing quest objectives even when not in a group; it helps draw players together to increase the questing efficiency, instead of making them avoid everyone else in order to not compete for the quest items/mobs. And so on.

(Though I admit I'm really keen on being self-reliant. I don't like the idea of not being able to really have fun when I can't find a group, more so because I often play in low population hours. I prefer when every solo activity is also open - and fun - for groups, though.)

This is why the game I'm really waiting for is GW2. One of it's basic tenets is that grouping is always possible and never has any disadvantage compared to playing solo. ANet's aim is to make a game where any group of players, from 2 players to as many as the server can handle, is able to do most of the content together, at the correct challenge level, no matter their classes, if they are formally grouped or just tagging along, etc. If ANet can deliver it, I don't think I will ever be solo in a MMO again :)
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 8:29AM Kodiak said

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Actually playing the beta did.

At first I was concerned it was going to be too much like a single player game like KOTOR or DragonAge or something that they wanted to charge us $15 a month to add in a multiplayer component. Once I got in, I realized it was more along the lines of Age of Conan where basically all the dialogue is just a fancy way to give us a quest and then it's like every other MMO.

There's certain downsides to the game (the UI is something out of a 2003 MMO, the AI is completely exploitable due to horrendous pathing, the graphics are more "Clone Wars" instead of KOTOR, repeatedly running the Flashpoint dialogue gets REALLY old) but nothing that should get in the way of having fun with the game for a few months. If they can address some of those issues by then and keep up with the content generation at the end game maybe longer.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 7:41PM Cendres said

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@Kodiak My god thank you for explaining the whole single player vs MMO thing, that's been driving me craaaazy. :)
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 8:39AM Damn Dirty Ape said

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No, because I know at the very least I will get a month's entertainment out of the game.

I buy great games all the time that I play for a total of 20-40 hours that I think were totally worth the investment, many of them Bioware games (Mass Effect, KOTOR, Jade Empire, DA:O, etc).

If the game turns out to be 'not for me' I just won't subscribe to it, but from what I've seen so far it should easily give me enough entertainment value to pay the box price for the free month.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 8:48AM Greyhame said

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Nope. Having played in the beta already, that made up my mind. I enjoyed my time there and found the way they told the story interesting most of the time. Enough to want to keep me playing a single character.

I will say it didn't keep me in my seat for the entire time I was in the beta weekend, so it doesn't have the pull that some single player games do, but it's more than enough for me to want to play it.

Now I'm not quitting my other MMOs for it but I'm going to enjoy it for what it is.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 8:49AM Mikkhail said

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sigh ... I am still on the fence ... it sounds great, but I am just still a little skeptical. I will be doing the final beta weekend during which I should be able to put together my final conclusion as to whether or not to dive in ...

Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 8:50AM (Unverified) said

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YES it did.

I canceled my pre-order, had the fanbois not over hyped this thing into making everyone believe this is the greatest mmo of all time, then only to find out after the NDA was lifted it's mediocre at best.

Well it left me where I'll wait it out for a price drop, or goes F2P, or a trial. From what I've read and understand from the footage, there doesn't seem to be allot to keep you interested beyond a couple months.

The voice acting in an mmo to me is a really bad idea, the pacing will be completely out of sync. Example: i can't play for a few days and everyone i play with continues, I'll literally have to pull a couple all night'ers grind 20 hours of voice acting to catch up. Some of the voice scenes are so long too, i'd probably fall asleep.

Fanbois are worse than trolls, had they stated fact from fiction which would have given me a clear understanding of what the game was truly about from the start i may have still pre-ordered and gave it a month, then decide from there. It's like when you are expecting this and you get that, well its a huge let down. Fanbois are ruining their own game.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 9:08AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

I have to agree with this.

Like seriously, you have people on the forums complaining about people who will skip cutscenes. They OBVIOUSLY have not played long enough to see how bad it gets.

NPCs sit and talk to you forever about some stupid , "Go get this crap" mission. Space, space , space, Answer, space, space, space, space, answer....space etc..No joke.

Only good side about most of the missions is that they come with bonus XP missions which I usually do all three of.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 9:19AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

Escape key is your friend.

It skips dialogue.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 9:20AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

Yeah but pressing escape won't give me the mission.

Just exits it.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 9:23AM Lucidus said

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@(Unverified) The downside is those bonus XP missions are almost always "Kill 10 to 30 rats"
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 9:38AM (Unverified) said

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@Lucidus

Lol.

That's actually ALWAYS what it is.

It's "Kill 20 of "these" monsters". Then part two is "Go kill 45 of "these" monsters". Then part three is "Go kill this elite".

But hey, if they are going to give me bonus XP for grinding, I'll take it.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 9:52AM Emolition said

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@(Unverified)
"The voice acting in an mmo to me is a really bad idea, the pacing will be completely out of sync. Example: i can't play for a few days and everyone i play with continues, I'll literally have to pull a couple all night'ers grind 20 hours of voice acting to catch up."
Not sure what the diffrence between this and text based mmos are if you away awile and say during that time I do 100 quests you still gonna have to do lots of work to catch up no matter if its texted or voiced. Both can be skiped voiced by space and texted just pushing the accept.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 10:13AM Cendres said

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@Emolition The problem here is that the game isn't a rush to end game, the whole point isn't to level, level, level and dungeon crawl forever with your buddies, PLENTY of MMOs are all about that. SWTOR is an experience, that you can share with your friends.

I've been waiting a long time for an MMO like this personally.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 10:14AM Lucidus said

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@(Unverified) I even had a Kill * 60 * pop up on Hoth at one time! I had a good laugh at that one.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2011 10:21AM cazicthule said

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@Lucidus

Stop trying to paint it into something it isn't. Almost all of the Kill-this-many quests are gotten from the body of something you already killed OR they are given in context of, "you're going that way anyway to do your main-story, and you're going to have to kill 55 of these anyway, how about I give you a bonus quest for killing 60".
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