Free for All: Some thoughts from the yellow pad

by Beau Hindman on Nov 16th 2011 10:00AM

Business models, Culture, News items, Opinion, Humor, Free for All, Miscellaneous

I've had a pretty busy time over the last several days. I like to stay active when I can, easily stuffing my schedule with high-power meetings and travels to exotic lands to discuss the latest game. Heck, just the other day I was flown to Russia to meet with the insane genius behind some of my favorite titles, and we bare-chested wrestled in the snow (he lost and had to buy the second round).

Well, not exactly. I did find some pretty cool games, played with my favorite titles, and overall daydreamed my way through life. A pretty typical week, really. If you'd like to hear about a few of the cool things I found, thought, and played last week, click past the cut.

RuneScape adds a fully-voiced quest

In "super really awesome" news, RuneScape developer Jagex recently added a new quest that features actual voice acting and music. It's called One Piercing Note, and so, of course, I had to jump in and try it out. I will not spoil it for you, but I was surprised that the developers went for a sort of murder mystery-style for the quest. For lack of a better word, the quest felt much more feminine than a lot of the team's typical stuff. You meet up with a series of characters and explore different clues while trying to solve an old-school murder. While there are a few humorous characters and the occasional silly line during the event, most of the voice acting is top-notch and the characters blend well.

I wonder why Jagex decided to try such an experiment. Does this mean it plans on doing more of these voice-acted quests, or does it plan on adding more voice to the existing game? I know that adding voice to your pre-existing game can be very tough and costly. I imagine that the plans are to see how successful this quest is and to use voice acting for special events or holidays. I love the new dimension it brings to the game and want to see more of the same in the future. Knowing Jagex, I suspect this is but one step in just one of the new directions it is taking RuneScape.

Illyriad alliance gives orders

While it might not seem like much to the untrained eye (like mine), one of the largest alliances in Illyriad, a browser-based MMORTS, recently asked players who wish to move next to any of their cities to let the alliance know ahead of time so they can all "discuss it." This sort of thing happens all the time in free-for-all PvP games, but in Illyriad the results can be pretty big. First of all, the price of combat is huge. Not only is maintaining an army expensive, but maintaining multiple cities and a growing one of the largest alliances in-game can be a headache. Now add all of this to the fact that making other players angry at you might not be the best idea. A player city can literally be wiped out, leaving the player with nothing but a fresh start and the skills learned over many months. If you have ever been podded in EVE Online (and who hasn't?), then it's sort of like that, minus the drab surroundings.

The interesting thing about the thread is the variety of emotions that pop up. Some players seem to take the "move slowly and kiss a lot of butt" tactic with anyone from the alliance, while others state their rage. There is even a call for a server that players can "win" at. A lot of the players of Illyriad came from games that featured limited-time-length servers, games with a true "win" scenario that would reset after a set amount of time. Since Illyriad does not have that, it does bring up a very interesting point: What if one group decided to take over the entire map? Who would be able to resist? Would the current alliances stand for it or just join in? There is a lot of intriguing psychology going on during events like these, and it's very interesting to watch. For the record, I hope something massive and violent erupts out of the announcement. Illyriad's community can be very lovely, and it's easy to forget that the players are all packing heat. It's also interesting to note how the H? alliance is essentially making a rule, something that can only happen in a sandbox game like Illyriad.

Obligatory "Skyrim is the best ever" announcements already being written

I said it on Twitter already, but when games like Skyrim are released, a predictable sequence of events usually follows. Of course I follow people from the MMO community, but that makes it only more interesting when they begin to act in a way that we've all seen before.

First, declare that the new, awesome release has many things to teach to developers of MMO games. Be sure to point out how wonderful the graphics are and how realistic the NPC actions can be. Talk about how the lore is deep and wonderful and how you feel immersed in the game... a lot. Be sure to tick off all of the things that you can do in the wonderful new title that you cannot do in an MMO. Change your Twitter or Facebook icons to match your new obsession, and do not forget to post game jokes, walkthrough links and YouTube videos several times throughout the day.
Second, make a post detailing how sick you have become of MMOs, and cancel the one or two subscriptions you might have. Change the look of your long-running MMO blog to reflect your new love for single-player games (even if it is just this one title). Be sure to declare that you are done with MMOs for good. Start making jokes about MMOs. Essentially, at this stage, you are in full-blown love with the new game.
Third, (several months later) start to doubt that this single-player game will last you as long as a typical MMO. Start to remember that MMOs have thousands of players running around in them. Re-join your old guild, and send out apologies for your lack of faith. Be sure to mention how "lonely" single player games are. Maybe start throwing in a few snarky comments about how the combat in the single-player games sucks compared to fighting "real humans."

This cycle will repeat itself many times for some people. It would be much easier for all of us if they would just come to the understanding that they found something new and exciting and were into it for a while. There's nothing wrong with that. Next time, though, it would be nice if the fickle player would remember that making a single-player experience and a world that is built to bend completely to the will of that one player is a much, much different process than building a world that needs to entertain thousands of players at once. MMOs and single-player games will always be different, at least until the day technology makes them one in the same. Until then, if you find yourself becoming obsessed with the latest, greatest, immersive single-player experience, just remember that MMOs are a different beast in many, many ways. They both have their flaws.

So there are some thoughts that popped into my head over this last week. I'll keep my yellow notepad handy for next time!

Each week, Free for All brings you ideas, news, and reviews from the world of free-to-play, indie, and import games -- a world that is often overlooked by gamers. Leave it to Beau Hindman to talk about the games you didn't know you wanted! Have an idea for a subject or a killer new game that no one has heard of? Send it to beau@massively.com!

Tags: beau-hindman, browser, console, eve-online, f2p, featured, free-for-all, free-to-play, ftp, illyriad, runescape, Sandbox, single-player, skyrim

Reader Comments (27)

I do get a kick out of people who say "I'm done with mmos!" and then you see them posting daily on ... mmo sites.

They aren't really done anymore than an alcoholic is "done" with drinking but still goes into the bars everyday to talk with all the other drunks.

People just say they are "done" because whatever particular mmo they liked had some big change they didn't (like SWG's "NGE", DAOC's ToA or WoW's "pandas), or whatever game they had their eye on in development added/took out something they liked/didn't like before it got launched ("What? This game isn't going to be three faction? Fail. No longer interested.").

Just remember not to laugh too hard at those game-aholics whenever you see them post that way. Sicknesses are no laughing matter.

@real65rcncom

True. On the other hand I am one of those "disappointed with changes to some mmos" and I do not play any mmorpg at all, because I don't like experience or /and business model offered by industry in this moment.

Yet I am visiting and posting on mmo-related sites frequently.

Wonder what that makes me?

Hanging-around-on-the-sites-holic?

Or just plain naive?

@real65rcncom

While some of them are a bit hypocritical when they exclaim "I'm done!" It doesn't mean they are no longer interested in MMOs. They may be looking for a different game that is to their liking, or that a game took a different turn and really is no longer fun for them. There's nothing wrong with that.

As to why they may stick around forums, blogs, or other news outlets? Well possibly they have some friends who still play and miss talking to them. Or as I said before, just because they quit MMOs doesn't mean there wont be one in the future to grab their interest. Or it could be they are looking for news to see how their former game may have changed again.

But I mean, you're right, they're just as pathetic as former alcoholics who stop at a pub to talk with people they may have enjoyed spending time with. (How dare they?)

@(Unverified)

not sure why the hostility. smartstep was able to make a point without the snarkiest directed towards me, but I guess that's what being civil is all about.

There is a difference in going to a bar as an alkie and "talking to friends" as you say, and an alkie going to the bar and saying "I really love Lagers. my fav is the full bodied walnut brewed ones. I don't like the taste of the pilsners because they are bitter. I really wish someone would make a great lager, because the ones out now stink. If they brewed a good one, I'd be drinking with you guys in a second."

Thats what Im talking about mainly. People who say mmo sucks, they quit and the don't like them anymore. But then they say if someone makes a good one, they'll come play. They aren't done. They still want to play them so it's dishonest to say they 'are done'.

Better to just say "taking a break because my preferred game isn't out/made"

@real65rcncom

Another reason: Sometimes "playing" the forum game can be a form of MMO for whatever personal reason, either to whine, be heard, or just to stay in touch.

Can get addicting, too!

@real65rcncom

I agree there is defiantly a difference if you go to the bar to talk about beer or to see friends, but the way I read your post it came off as a general statement of "I'm done." All I was saying is some people quit for different reasons, other than just to stir things up, and a lot of 'I quits' are knee jerk reactions.

Since we're still on the alcohol analogy, how many of us have drank too much, and the next day have stated, "I'm never drinking again!"?

Most people are probably over-reacting to a headache and a sickly feeling. Others may have generally not enjoyed the experience and have meant that they are going to quit for good. Still others may switch to a brand with less impurities.

Crap, are we talking about alcohol or MMOs at this point?

By the way, there was no hostility meant in my post... Some sarcasm in there sure, but that's my native language. I'm impressed that you guys in the lands of civil can pick up on that.

Nothing is certain in life but death, taxes, and gamer fickleness.

If you extend Beau's logic to TOR, one could say that it puts the nature of the 4th pillar in question in an MMO. Since, building a world for YOU to experience will always be a more immersive, unique experience than building a world for US to experience with thousands of others. In single player games we are dictators of our world. While in an MMO, we one of thousands of peons with nary a voice to control our world. Unless this comes true - "MMOs and single-player games will always be different, at least until the day technology makes them one in the same."

I would argue that MMOs aren't about story, at all. Sure people might want story in their MMOs but are these people really MMO fans? Or attempting to make an MMO something it's not.

"This game of soccer is awesome, but why can't we use our hands, and the goals are too big, lets put it on this poll 10ft off the ground. Man I love soccer."

@Nucleon Well, I didn't really say that single player games were *more* immersive or somehow better than MMOs...just that they were different. Becoming "immersed" in an MMO might be a different process for different people.

My point was that treating the two games the same is sort of silly. It's like comparing a MMORTS to a MMOFPS. Different experiences, even though they are both games.

I would argue that story is key to an MMO, and always has been. It's the audience that has changed, though. Many of the players I know simply skip the story and go for chasing the loot. :)

Beau

I'm not done with MMOs. Not by a long shot. But Skyrim is off the hook and if anything, whether you think it's obligatory or not, shows how to create a living breathing WORLD for us to play in. THAT aspect is what needs to be brought back to MMOs. I mean they started that way with UO, EQ, AC, AO and WoW vanilla had that magic, and suddenly they all started to become streamlined and tunnel/islands instead of living worlds.

@MMOaddict I hate to be a nitpick, but it would be more accurate to describe Skyrim (and other single player games) as large cities at most, with a limited number of stories and activities. At some point, the "content" will run out.

An MMO has the unlimited potential of hundreds of players interacting with other. You could make an MMO that is nothing but a blank world and a chat box and players would make their own stories. If trade was allowed, the economy would morph and change. This is because every single player is different and more capable than any NPC possible today.

Again, I ain't knocking Skyrim (I'm enjoying it myself) but there are already players talking about "finishing" it for a reason. You cannot "finish" an MMO because there is generally never one goal to achieve, thanks again to the influence of other players.

Beau

@Beau Hindman

You are missing my point. I LOVE MMORPGs. What we need MMORPGs to do is capture the immersion factor that Bethesda has in creating Skyrim. Sure, you beat skyrim, although one could argue with mods and expansions it has longer shelf life than any other single player games, but that's not what I'm getting at here. It's not the amount of content or actual world size but the feel of that world, how you travel in it, the feedback of your character in that world, his impact on quests and the world itself, etc. These are things I mean about devs needing to bring to current and new MMORPGs. Basically giving us more Sandparks to play in, not these extremes of one way or the other.

ArcheAge, GW2 and possibly Secret World look to be heading in that direction, but we won't know till they launch. I DO know SWTOR is not heading in that direction, more's the pity, when it should have.

@MMOaddict

Ah, I would say you are missing Beau's original point and falling into that "trap" he stated about certain elements being included into MMOs from single-player games.

You are not wrong, but you gotta think about it: it is easier to feel you are special and have an impact on the game world when it's a single-player game as opposed to an MMO when dealing with lots of people. Also, the fact is that you are *dealing with other people* who have different ideas of what a game is and different styles of gameplay and different speeds/times they play. A single-player game you can take as it comes to you at your own pace but not so much an MMO, especially if you are teamed with others; they may go too fast or slow and not care for "reading textboxes" or "listening to voice acting" or even "immersion".

Sure, that's the "promise" of online gaming, but you have to sit back and think how one can implement it with lots of divergent people and limited Dev resources; even if you talk about a big game studio, you still have limited resources (workers) to work on certain things. They can't make individual content for every player and some content. Then there is content that you need to put "blinders" on because most people have played through it and can tell you their opinion. Sure, I would love limited-edition quests that were only available for a limited time and other tricks, but it takes manpower and money.

In a single-player game, you may play a section of town and leave and never revisit or see it again, but to waste such resources in an MMO is...wasteful. Someone had to make all those wiremodels and 3D NPCs and buildings, if not many people see it, that's work down the drain. That's why you see MMOs reuse such models and creatures, maybe putting them in a new color or slightly different skin. Not every MMO player may travel to that area but in a single-player, you have more time to do so casually.

@MMOaddict

So to explore this further lets imagine, and then extrapolate on one of skyrims features and extend it to an MMO. The feature where *MINOR SPOILER ALERT* you can side with either the stormcloaks or the imperials and start to flip the banners on cities throughout skyrim towards one or the other depending on what you choose. Its pretty fun, and immersive, and represents the coolness of a living breathing single player world quite well. The people running the cities change depending on who controls the town....

So lets apply that to an MMO, the players on one side can work together to take back over in favor of either imperials or stormcloaks depending on the outcome of persistant battles or quests or events, basically whatever...

Now the thought experiment is: How many times do the players have to switch it back and forth one way or the other, before you as an individual stop caring at all which colours the banners have inside the town? What types of features have to be subject to the change (like quests, vendors, banking, options etc. are all subject to which side owns the town) for you to care more? Do the features and content that are subject to change alienate 50% of your players depending on ownership?

I believe that people answering these questions honostly will lead us to why this doesn't work in MMO's.

@Beau Hindman

"At some point, the "content" will run out."

Which is why we see Expansion Packs. A good example of this would be Morrowind and its two expansions, each adding a huge chunk of content. This is not unlike them park MMOs that release an expansion every year or two. If MMOs never released new content, do you think people would continue playing the same MMO for years? I'm sure that Bethesda could keep people playing Skyrim for years if they wanted to, just by releasing a DLC pack every few months and a new expansion every year or two.

"..You cannot "finish" an MMO because there is generally never one goal to achieve, thanks again to the influence of other players."

Due to the nature of Skyrim, with enemies repopulating cleared areas, as well as the miscellaneous quests, one could have things to do in that game for a very long time. Then you have expansions. Then you have the user-created content. This sounds like standard MMO content to me: dailies, patches and expansions.

The big difference between the two is that the single player game can be tailored to create a much more immersive world, where NPCs aren't glued in place. In an MMO, you cannot have your shop keeper leave their post in the evening to go to the pub, followed by them going home to sleep until the next morning. In an MMO, you cannot have your quest givers wander about town, doing things. If an NPC moves, for any reason whatsoever, you are going to annoy your player base. Imagine if in WoW all the NPCs went home to sleep at night.

On the flip, the MMO has the social aspect to keep people playing. When I was 'done' with WoW, I kept logging in for a few months before I finally pulled the plug. As a non-raider, I run out of content to do fairly quickly in most theme park MMOs. The exception being CoH, where I could just team up with people and do stuff, I kept my account active for over 7 years, and just recently canceled it (oddly enough due to Skyrim, because I know I'll be playing Skyrim for the next few months and I wanted to save some money).

Still, there is something to be said in creating a world that feels lived in, where the people run about doing whatever it is they do. I think MMOs could benefit greatly by adding more NPCs that wander about and 'do things' (and I mean more than wandering guards). Have some of the lesser user shops close up for the night. Add more NPCs at the pubs in the evenings, then thin out the town's population during the night.

The problem I'm finding with Skyrim is that...it's exactly the same as every other Bethesda game ever released. It's still good, and it may last hundreds of hours, but it clearly isn't long enough to last you the same length of time you would play an MMO. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who only plays an MMO for the first month, in that case, it may.

The problem with MMOs these days, however, is that developers are trying to grab more non-MMO players. They are doing this the only way they know how: to cater to them by implementing things they like about single player games into their MMOs. This, in turn, begins to alienate many hardcore MMO players who, in a subscription based game, are the ones that are loyal and stay subscribed for years. That's where the money comes from.

No MMO makes money off the initial sale of the game, as far as I know. They are long-term investments, however, if they expect single player gamers to subscribe to an MMO for 4 years, they clearly don't have a head for this sort of business. It's not going to happen. A PERFECT, and I mean PRIME, MINT example of this is DCUO. This game was MADE for single player gamers. It sold very well during the first month and everyone was raving about it when it came out, especially PS3 owners. Now, 6 months later, the game is F2P. Within those 6 months, it virtually fell off the face of the earth. No one was talking about it past the first month, no one was raving about how good it was or the longevity it may have, and most importantly, no one was staying subscribed to it. This is what happens when you try to make an MMO for single player gamers. They will play for one month, then move on to Modern Snorefare 12 or whatever big blockbuster game comes out a week later.

I say go back to the days of making MMOs for MMO players. Make the games for people who will play them for years, not for weeks. I dare say with the increased cost of development, those days may be over.

As for story in MMOs...I play on RP servers pretty much exclusively. Having the game make the story for me certainly takes a lot of the magic out of making my own character. I realize that quest and story were always in MMOs in the form of text wall quests, which almost everyone (including me) skipped past and never read, however, with voice acting becoming more prevalent in upcoming MMOs (TOR, Guild Wars 2), it's kind of hard NOT to listen to, and become engulfed by, the story they are trying to jam down your throats.

There will always be tons of MMO players who do not care about story whatsoever. They want to get to max level and get the best loot as fast as possible. Sitting through 10 minutes of dialog just for someone to tell them to kill 5 rats is going to grate on their nerves. Skipping this quest dialog, however, is only going to significantly shorten the amount of time it will take for players to reach max level. If it takes 80 hours to get to max level in TOR, and 30 of those hours are "supposed" to be talking, then theoretically, it will only take 50 hours to reach max level if this quest text is skipped. This will create jealousy by seeing others level to cap so much faster, then more and more people will start skipping quest dialog in order to keep up making it almost pointless to have added that amount of voice dialog to the game to begin with...except of course for those single player gamers who will only stick around for the first month.

@kjhasdfjkhk

I disagree about how you used DCUO as an example for different reasons, but maybe I am coming from it from a different perception.

I liked DCUO, but I always knew, even before getting into Beta, there would be long-term troubles. An MMO is a virtual place to "hang-out" and one needs activities, be it mini-games or crafting or chatting or other.

DCUO could be construed as a single-player game, but I feel it is more akin to "Street Fighter (world) Online". Think about that. You have your tournaments and challengers coming up. Of course, if PvP ain't your thing, you can always go the "Streets of Fury (Online)" route or "Double Dragon (Online)" Road.

DCUO does that sorta thing very nice. As a single-player game, there are nice quests, but they are relatively short and not too different if you repeat them (so content goes stale fast). It's like buying a game and finishing it that night or in 5-8 hours. You spend money, you play and at the end, you are wondering where is the rest. I think they sorta did something similar around Tekken 5 with putting an "living breathing world" and a "fighting game".

In some ways, Vindictus is more like a single-player game with an online component than even DCUO (is there PvP fighting in Vindictus? Never tried it that far).

@kjhasdfjkhk

Funny thing about your assertion with respects to many not caring about story is that one of the biggest MMO launches we've heard of in the last few years (if not ever) is betting heavily on the contrary to that right now!

I do agree with you however.

Ah, the hubris of large guilds never ceases to amaze. Pride goeth before a fall, H?.

You asked about what if players in Illyriad were to take over a whole region (or whole map) what would happen. I think I know, because there has been games where that has occurred, more or less, in the past and even today.

Battletech on ye olde GEnie network (and later on AOL's network) had a map with all the clans (5 clans). You joined a clan (faction) and started battling in your mech in "Arenas" or maps. The most wins from a particular faction would win that area on a map. I forget which faction, but there were times I saw the whole map one color. I think, eventually, another clan would rally. At certain times, either set time periods or (I am guessing here) when someone took the map, it would reset.

Dynasty Warriors online does this kind of thing, too. Win enough of the action-oriented fights for your clan/dynasty/team and you take over a section of the map. Win enough and you can take over the whole map. That company tends to reset the map after a time, since some clans are bigger than others (and you need to give a leg-up to those clans).

The only way to have a continuing game and continuing conflict is to reset the map. Conversely, you could add more to the map or put in more wildcard/wrinkles (like getting an item that claims an area instantly). The main thing is to keep them fighting, because even the winning side will get bored if it has won and nothing happens afterwards.

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Free for All: Some thoughts from the yellow pad

Reader Comments (27)

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 10:27AM real65rcncom said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 12:49PM smartstep said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 1:04PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 1:31PM real65rcncom said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 1:42PM Space Cobra said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 2:31PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 10:29AM Nucleon said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 10:43AM Nucleon said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 11:00AM Beau Hindman said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 11:02AM MMOaddict said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 11:37AM Beau Hindman said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 12:03PM MMOaddict said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 12:24PM Space Cobra said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 5:23PM Kalex716 said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 5:34PM Cyclone Jack said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 11:40AM kjhasdfjkhk said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 12:11PM Space Cobra said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 5:40PM Kalex716 said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 12:31PM nimzy said

Posted: Nov 16th 2011 12:34PM Space Cobra said

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