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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:06PM Lenn said

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I played on an RPPvP server during my WoW years and generally found it to be a great experience. The only major problem with such a server is that not only will you get the intentional RP griefers rolling on it, but also the intentional PvP griefers. Not only that, but you're giving the latter an *extra* reason to be asshats: "I'm roleplaying an asshat, so my level 50 character obliterating your level 15 character is totally justified".

Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:32PM (Unverified) said

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@Lenn It's completely legitimate. In fact, the correct response would be to call in some high level friends and start a world PvP fight. :D PvP servers are meant to be a little more harsh. You don't have that safety net wherever you go so you should be encouraged to travel/play in groups.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:49PM Lenn said

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@(Unverified) I know all that. But it bites to be ganked by someone who pretends to be a roleplayer and who named himself Ipwndurmom and who claims that was a nickname given to him when he was just a wee asshat.
And for some reason I don't see Jedi and Sith doing /spit emotes at each other after defeating their opponents. Let alone tea bagging each other. Unfortunately, that is the kind of crowd a PvP server tends to attract, and they don't give a toss about the letters R and P.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:49PM (Unverified) said

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@Lenn Oh, that kind of griefer. Yeah, you'll have those guys, but I try to remember my good experiences and play an alt until they go away. :D

TOR's going to be a different game, though. There's always the large surge of people actually interested in both RP-PVP on servers at launch. If we can manage to form a solid, standard upholding community, I think we'll be okay.

Awhile back someone suggested getting all the Massively RP-PVPers together on one server. I still think that'd be great.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:07PM Lucidus said

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I'm not ganking you because I'm a coward and a jerk, I'm doing it for the Empire -- noob.

Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:41PM drunkingamebar said

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@Lucidus sums it up well.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:03PM (Unverified) said

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@Lucidus

That was brlliant!
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:09PM Mikx said

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RP PVP doesnt make much sense in gameplay terms, (they;re kind of seperate communities) but its great for star wars. Its not just about killing the red dots, you're a jedi, and you eliminate the sith. Or you're a bounty hunter racking up bounties. Or you're a sith operative killing all the troopers that will be your allies in a few thousand years. Okay, the last one doesnt work, but the others are solid.

If Swtor really has few common areas or vacant spots that could be used for RP it could quash the possibilities. But if any RP-ers are out RP-ing their secret ceremony at a ruined temple, or whatever, they could be attacked by their dreaded enemies. Just like in real RP life.

Could be cool.

Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:30PM (Unverified) said

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@Mikx RP and PVP go hand in hand incredibly well. Warhammer, Dark Age of Camelot, Age of Conan, and PlanetSide are all great examples of games with roleplaying communities that actively engage in PvP.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:08PM Zal said

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@Mikx

I disagree regarding them being separate communities.

I love RP. I only play on servers that have RP.

However I also love PvP, I get very bored when on a normal PvE ruleset as I like the danger involved with PvP.

So with that said, I'm pretty much bang on the target audience of a RP-PvP server. It's PERFECT for me! I have a lot of friends who feel the same way. Back when WoW launched without RP-PvP there were a lot of us who felt we were 'forced' to play with PvE rules because otherwise we'd have no RP environment. I've never understood why RP is PvE by default, one could make the argument it should be PvP by default because in most MMOs it's more realistic that two factions should be allowed to fight.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:25PM Dblade said

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@(Unverified) Uh, didn't Wiccana on AoC go PvE? The rest of your list are dead or zombie games. Massively hasn't covered Warhammer in months.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:30PM Dblade said

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@Zal it's PvE mostly because it's hard to fight without mechanics getting in the way. You can't really RP being captured for example because if you try to bring the opposite faction into your city the guards attack them. Or like in Champions Online, if you try to RP PvP you are treated to the crazy spectacle of some ninja with a pair of swords taking down a guy who bench presses trucks.

Emoting isn't perfect, but with good rpers you can control the pace of battle better and make it more realistic. You also aren't penalized for losing it, too.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:47PM (Unverified) said

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@Dblade I don't know about any recent changes to AoC or it's community.

Warhammer is still alive and well. Just because Massively doesn't cover it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. :P Though they really should switch to a free to play model. It would breathe a lot of life back into the game.

But I digress.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 7:28PM Mikx said

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@Zal I agree, but in my experience most people that rp want to just be left alone and do their thing so they can chat or do some /emotes in peace.

PVP adds a great level of RP immersion and conflict, but there are times when you don't want that.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:28PM (Unverified) said

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I'm a RP-PVPer. I don't like Silvermoon City dinner parties or whodunnit mystery theater.

In SWTOR, my Smuggler is going to get the job done at all costs. My reputation assures my clientele fast, discrete delivery. If getting a shipment off Alderaan means blasting a few customs agents, you can be assured it's going to happen; my shot is way quicker than greasing a few nerf herding Imperial palms. Maybe my boss will throw in a little bonus for a few Imperial heads, anyway.

My only concern is that many WoW players can't wrap their head around the idea that RP-PVP servers are for people interested in both RP -and- PvP. More often than not I run into someone that firmly believes Blizzard intends it to be for people interested in one or the other, as if PvP and RP servers don't exist separately. I really hope this isn't the case in TOR.

Because RP trolling is so prominent, I almost want to see some kind of quick rule quiz before you enter a RP server. Or at least a reminder that RP servers are intended to be pretty different from normal ones. I'm not asking everyone to be a hardcore roleplayer, but there are many people that don't respect the rules and servers full of GM's that are too swamped to care.

Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:44PM Dblade said

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@(Unverified) Going to be fun to watch your smuggler repeatedly get ganked by some FOTM Sith build and wind up having to roleplay failing all their smuggling missions because the other faction is camping spawn or choke points. The reason why most RP is dinner theater is because if you leave it up to the game's mechanics you wind up with half your guild getting tired of not being able to fight cause their build sucks.

If you look at the big PvP games like EVE or Aion, the RP presence is tiny.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 4:55PM (Unverified) said

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@Dblade Good thing I don't have to respond to every stimuli in the environment when I'm roleplaying. i.e. griefers and stuff. I would say most MMO roleplayers are out of character at some point anyway.

Say I'm on my Bounty Hunter. Even if he's roleplayed as a dual wielding damage dealing Mercenary, I would still respec him into Bodyguard/healing for raids.

Roleplaying isn't a masochistic activity. We respond to things like that the same way you do. Quest area getting spawn camped/ganked/whatever? We go play an alt. Go make a sandwich. Go watch some netflix. Go outside.

I don't know much about Aion, but EVE doesn't allow you to get out of your ship and walk around in planets, or otherwise interact with your environment on a tangible level. I wouldn't blame the PvP focus for the lack of RP, I'd blame the lack of welcoming mechanics for it.

PlanetSide is entirely PvP based and I know there are some outfits out there, on voice chat, roleplaying giving orders and stuff. It's incredibly fun to call out "Stand by for drop signal" when you're piloting a Galaxy drop ship.

Yes, you do have some roleplayers that would put themselves through that, but I would say most of them just put a little more life into their character than you do. You may have picked up Skyrim this past weekend. When you're playing your character, making decisions and things, that's essentially what us roleplayers are doing online. Sometimes you get gimped by a giant or whatever and you just reload. Sometimes we get jumped in the middle of some RP and we just "pause" it and react.

It's not that black and white. :p
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:18PM Dblade said

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@(Unverified) The point though of being in character on a pvp-rp server is to respond to pvp in character. If you have to ignore the asshats constantly or deal with ooc griefing, there's no difference from a standard pvp server. if you have to build to deal with game mechanics just to get a fighting chance rather than pick powers to match your character concept, again, standard pvp.

Building in skyrim is not being a roleplayer. MMO rping reacts to others as much to your own concept.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 5:45PM (Unverified) said

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@Dblade And I do respond to PvP in character; just not all of it. If I look back on a particular character history I don't mark out each and every world encounter I had. It's okay to just ignore certain events. For every asshat I do ignore I make up for it by having some quality RP time. The RP I experience isn't constantly bombarded by griefers, anyway.

On that note, there's a huge difference between wrongfully ignoring something and rightfully ignoring something. If a new roleplayer wants to participate in your tavern RP and everyone in the tavern ignores his attempts to join in, that's really negative roleplay ignoring. If you're in town having a conversation with someone and a griefer shows up, ignoring him is positive.

On the flipside, I do have a few characters who's social interactions pretty much define their history. One character in particular would not have developed the direction he did had I not been in two particular guilds with their own beliefs and actions. There -is- a balance, though it may not be obvious to someone that does not roleplay much or at all.

Sure, my Smuggler may get whooped now and again, but I'm not going to call that character death. I'm going to call that a tactical retreat. It happens. But you shouldn't feel like you need to trash your own character for the sake of continuity in a PvP situation. Sometimes you totally should if it works in your story's favor. Most people are understanding of this. At the end of the day my Smuggler may kick back and just say "I fought in many battles" instead of "I fought against this guy, got wrecked by this guy, barely made it past this guy" etc. Not everything requires exact detail.

You can't let yourself assume all roleplayers are in character all day every day. Some do go for that hardcore roleplaying experience, but there are many different kinds of roleplayers.

And you are roleplaying when you play Skyrim, Mass Effect, Fallout, etc. You're making decisions for your character and they change the story. I'd call that light roleplaying whether those that do it want to admit it or not. Someone that has an active interest in engaging in character conversations with another and is often found saying things on their own accord instead of just reacting would probably be considered a medium roleplayer. Hardcore roleplayer I already touched on.

So far, TOR supports every build/character concept you can think of within the game's confines. I still can have offensive capabilities as a Bodyguard/healer Bounty Hunter; the game doesn't strip them away. There is no specialization that isn't viable (right now).

No, I can't use a carbine as a Bounty Hunter. The game won't let me. So sometimes you have to change up your RP a little. Maybe it is a big deal to some, but I'd wager to most it's a minute change that won't have a devastating impact on the character's personality. :)
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Posted: Nov 15th 2011 9:48PM Space Cobra said

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@Dblade @White-faced Unverified Jester/Clown

"You can't let yourself assume all roleplayers are in character all day every day. Some do go for that hardcore roleplaying experience, but there are many different kinds of roleplayers."

^ This!

Just as there are different types of PvPers, there are different types of PvEers. It goes through all ranges.

It's just being "human". I've RPed heavy in the past and for long stretches of game time, however, even the most dyed-in-the-wool RPer, or what some may call "RP-Nazi" can go off RP at times. Sometimes this is done with /tells as they RP in chat and other times, I've just seen it break down into open channel OOC, with or without the OOC/IC indicators.

It's basically different strokes for different folks and if you try to impose too strong a vision of "how it should be done", you run the risk of running these players away or, at least, away from you.

Late nights is when I often see people "letting down their hair" and chat, it's that simple. Nothing wrong. Sometimes it is good to get to know your fellow "actors".

As for things popping up, I agree with White-Faced Unverified on that note. Really, you have to be flexible with your RP many times. I've RPed many "tough/stern-faced silent killers" in my day (and still do) and it is VERY HARD to get RP coming your way if you stand in a room and emote how tough you are without and text-verbal exchange. It may go against your character, but sometimes you just have to gloss certain things over and not count it in your character's history. Sure, it's great to roll with whatever people do to you, but RP is all about give/take. I get surprised that some people roll with whatever situation they are put in; an extreme example would be "Power RPing" or even "God Mode RP" wherein they just emote that they tie you up, win, and have their way with you...and some player accept this, but are turned off afterwards.

Sometimes you have to break that ICness and say, "No, this ain't right for my character." I've seen character concepts changed from an actor's intended purpose, such as turned into a Vampire (when Vamps started to get trendy "back in the day" online). Now, nothing wrong with "rolling with it" and it might be fun, but if you have a vision and particular story element, then some things may negate that. (Again, RPers are different and have different reasons; you gotta be OPEN to them all). I've seen players quit such characters because they got "changed" or "affected" by events and other players and just "re-roll" another character.

You have to take charge of what happens to your character, too. You are also a storyteller, if not to others, to yourself. You also add to RP.
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