| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (43)

Posted: Nov 13th 2011 7:11PM Dblade said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I actually never had any issues playing it at start, what kills EVE imo is how little real meat there is to the game. You get used to UI's and basics, but you can't get used to how little solo content there is, how little group content there is (PvE grinds repetitive content to build things, PvP is just one-sided fighting for the lulz.)

So it's cool starting out, then you hit a slump at around 3-6 million SP where the newness wears off, and you just do the same old, same old because advancement is slow, bigger ships cost a lot, and content starts to become cyclical. The new player experience I think hooks people, its the midgame and beyond where they start to leave.

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 5:22AM Dirame said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Dblade

People decide their own mid-game. If all you do is missions then of course you will get bored. If people branch out from what they think they game should be and start playing it for what it is, they will enjoy it a lot more. Exploration is a blast! I've wasted hours just trying to find that money making radar. Incursions are a blast if you have a good ship, a corp or a fleet that will take you on one. You don't even have to stick with the PvE, there are some people who just do the indirect pvp, the market pvp. Buying low and selling high, all that good stuff.

There is lots to do in Eve, you just have to figure out where you want to go after you're done with the tutorial.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 7:45AM Khai mann said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Dblade

If you only knew what you are talking about.... 3~4 bil SP is nothing, there is way more PVE available past that point.

- Incursions
- Plexes
- Missions
- Wormholes
- Ratting
- Anomalies

Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 3:05PM Dblade said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Khai mann but you do all of those once, and you've got the experience. There's zero change to any of them over time, they are means to an end. You ask many EVE players what their goals are, its none of those things: their real goal is what ship they want to fly.

I stand by what I said, EVE loses most of its players around that SP level because they don't really have anything to offer except grinding things that never change, or PvP that has no real purpose.
Reply

Posted: Nov 15th 2011 9:44AM Addfwyn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Dblade I agree with you actually. More power to people who play it and make their own content to enjoy (as that seems to be what most of the people who actually enjoy the game longterm do) but I'm more interested in having some kinda product actually offered to me. I get that the game has a lot of things that are 'a means to an end' (mining, missions, industry etc) but there isn't much 'end' provided.

No real story (which is a shame, because there is some cool lore in the universe and I was super excited about that. Until I found out missions had no actual story) and little real 'theme park' or endgame content to occupy the user.
Reply

Posted: Nov 13th 2011 7:22PM slash beast said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I didn't get serious with EVE until after I played it for a 6th time.

Reason for that's because I was still learning the game. Once I had a grasp and started understanding and making progress I became hooked.

I think the big grab for me was when I upgraded to a cruiser. I really enjoyed having something bigger because it gave me a sense of accomplishment, so I felt like I was actually getting somewhere and learning the game as I played. So, I ended up sticking with it, and 2 years later here I am flying freighters and tengus.

Posted: Nov 13th 2011 10:41PM DarkWalker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I'm usually good at figuring stuff, so I didn't have a harsh time with EVE's "learning cliff".

What keeps me out is plain old game design. I'm not really interested in a game that punishes death as harshly as EVE does, so I went away after the free trial and never came back.

Of course, given that the risk of losing the ship and cargo is such a core aspect of EVE, I don't expect it to ever change; I just accept that EVE is not really the game for me.

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 1:23AM (Unverified) said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@DarkWalker
I applaud this post. Seriously. For once, someone admits that it's not the game's fault they can't get into it. For the record, I'm the exact opposite. As a person who came up on EQ1 10+ years ago, the current trend of removing any consequences of note for death/dying/losing, just doesn't fit my preferences. In addition to that, I can't enjoy the PvP aspect unless it's zero sum so the current trend of "everyone gets a trophy, win or lose" means I just don't PvP in these games.

I love EVE because it's a game that makes me THINK. I can't run into an engagement willy nilly without even considering "what if?". Granted, having several billion banked kinda mitigates that somewhat (I don't fly around in my billion+ ISK Golem too often), but it doesn't eliminate it. Losing a fully fitted Navy Raven is still going to sting, even with lots of resources.

@Utakata
Yes, you can have 3 characters in EVE...but only ONE can be training skills. So, for most players, the other two slots are for mules or essentially throwaway characters. That's one reason why so many EVE players have multiple accounts. If you want a character to develop, it either has to be at another character's expense or on its own account.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 7:45AM DarkWalker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

You just pointed one of the main reasons I don't like when gear is lost on death: it leads to a "shinnies stay in the bank" behavior, and I like to play with my shinnies :P

The other reason is that, while I have the most fun playing recklessly, I can't stand to take real risks. I love exploring, seeking out challenges just to see if I can beat them, trying (and dying) a couple dozen times until I figure out how to beat something I wasn't supposed to beat, etc. But, whenever death brings real consequences, my play style changes completely, to the point I will only do something after I'm completely sure I will succeed; if I can completely eliminate the real risks by doing 10x more boring work, I will do so while hating every moment I'm doing it.

Given this, it's not hard to see why I can't really keep playing games like EVE, with a harsh death penalty. Even if I like every other aspect of the game (which is mostly the case with EVE), the harsh death penalty keeps me from actually enjoying the game.

It's the same reason why I abhor achievements tied to not dying in any MMO. I'm a sucker for trying to do all achievements, so I can't get myself to pass on one such achievement. But the end result is that I don't really start enjoying the game until the achievement for not dying is out of the way. It's the reason I consider LotRO only starts at level 20, for example; it's when the last achievement for not dying is finally done, and when I can finally start taking risks and actually having fun with the game.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 9:31AM Yuri said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@DarkWalker
Well fortunately, there are no such achievements in EVE, you'll have to measure achievement by more concrete means. Kill stats, racking up a wallet in trade or whatever else.

As to the "harsh" penalty, well, equipment isn't anywhere near as difficult to replace as in traditional MMOs. A ship gets popped, you pull another of the stack. Running around with the most advanced/expensive stuff you can get isn't necessary and really just isn't a good idea.

I've never been able to understand the irrational fear that drives people to say things like, "I can't stand losing everything when I get killed." Not what you said, I know, but that feeling is so pervasive. Honestly, there is no good reason for you ever to have everything you own in one ship. Ever. Your personal wallet in inviolable and ships and equipment that you will be trained for will be relatively cheap.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 10:43AM DarkWalker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Yuri
On the other hand, for most games, there is no real downside to running with the best/most expensive pieces of gear you own all the time. Players are free to be always fully geared, to never care about ever having to settle for lower quality gear just because they were killed.

If the player don't care about the thrill from the risk of losing gear/ship/implants, he will like better games without such risk, where he is free to use whichever gear he wants without risking anything.

As a result, while having no real risk is boring for some players, having real risks is a deal breaker for other players. I'm, for example, the kind of player that don't like real risks, since I prefer to play in a quite reckless manner. As you can probably attest if you are a EVE player, reckless is not a play style that really works in EVE.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 11:02AM MaddZ said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@DarkWalker

Likewise, I finaly quit EVE after an accidental uncloak cost me a very expensive cargo load, and then later that week I lost my mission ship when I was in a heavy T4 mish and my wife fell down the stairs. She was alright thankfully, but I came back to a pile of scrap, and due to the week's earlier losses I couldn't afford to replace it. (someone had scanned and looted me before I could try to retrieve my own loot) Even given all of that, I still was game for EVE. Normally my corp would provide low interest loans to mission runners who had somehow lost a ship, but our corp wallet had been cleaned out by a disgruntled co-officer the week before. :-(

It just wasn't worth it anymore. Not to mention everytime I dock/undock and have to swap my damn resistance plates out AGAIN I want to slap someone. Just gets bloody old. I normally like the mechanic in games, but when you have to check a 3rd party website before every mission to make sure your resistances are aligned correctly.....well, its damned infuriating.

Some people will have all the time in the world to play games, and they will always be the ones who rise to the top of the gaming world. Whether its Unreal, Starcraft, or an MMO like EVE, those of us with limited playtime will just have to deal with being lesser players. What makes it suck for EVE is that its impossible to make money without sinking in lots of time. Unless of course, you get lucky.

I am not lucky.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 6:05PM Utakata said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

...well, that sucks. I'll keep that in mind though. :(
Reply

Posted: Nov 13th 2011 11:48PM Tyleus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Like DarkWalker, I consider myself pretty good at figuring things out. Just takes a moment to sit and toy around with it for a bit. It IS a very complex UI though and there is a LOT to learn...but you don't necessarily have to learn it all right away. 4 years playing now, I still find myself learning stuff I didn't know.

Besides the UI though, when I first started playing, even with a different new player experience (and a time when race and more specifically bloodline DID matter) I played it for about 3 or 4 days and nearly threw in the towel. The game seemed monotonous, slow, and almost felt in some ways more like an RTS (real-time strategy), something I was not into at the time.

And then, while mining (because I thought I'd become some rich prospector from mining), someone flipped my can and I shot at them. Of course I died in a flaming ball of pretty explosion, and probably an epic face of "wtf just happened??" But I was hooked from there on. The rush and feel of pvp resulting in a real loss.... it just doesn't compare to going into a fight thinking, "ahh well, if i die i'll just rez and come right back."

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 1:08AM Utakata said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Tyleus

I am curious...did that incident happen during your career tutorial in Mining or because you where poking around mining in a nulsec/lowsec zone?
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 4:05AM tooright said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Utakata I'm as clueless as you as to where it was but I can tell you that if it was in low sec or nullsec that there would have been no reason for his killer to take the can and get him to shoot at him. So chances are ...magic eightball says...it was highsec and he got baited by a can flip
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 9:36AM Yuri said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@tooright
Correct, no point in bothering with a can-flip in Low or Null, he'd just open fire.
Learning the ins and outs of aggression mechanics are your best defense for this kind of thing. Also to note, if you're in a starter system, i.e. where you're doing your tutorial missions, this sort of behaviour is petitionable and bans do get handed out. It's hard enough on the New players and CCP does have rules on it even if it's not widely advertized.
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 6:00PM Utakata said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Yuri & tooright

Thanks for explaining that.

My question now is what is the meaning of "can-flip"? Is that where a player flags themselves for combat?
Reply

Posted: Nov 14th 2011 10:58PM Tyleus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You are right. It happened in a high sec system and was a can-flip. When a person mines, common tactic is to jettison the ore in a temporary container because for a new player like I was, my thought was use a destroyer to mine with. Unfortunately, it has a small cargo hold for mining purposes so you drop the can, fill the can, then pick it up later with a hauler ship.

Can flipping is stealing the ore from the miner's container and putting it into your own. This immediately flags the you, allowing the "victim" to shoot the you if they so choose. YOU cannot fire upon the victim though until shot at first. In my case, I shot at him and died for it.

I didn't know at the time, because I was so new, that it was an offense I could petition. That wasn't exactly advertised openly. But no matter, i personally would thank the guy now for opening my eyes to a more entertaining side of Eve.
Reply

Posted: Nov 13th 2011 11:51PM Celtar said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Third, fourth or fifth time going back won't keep me until they fix the @#$#@$@!@# fonts on the UI. I can't read them and I am not talking about the chat font's which you can make larger. The across the game screen rest of the UI font which at its largest is tiny.

I never felt the game was overwhelming, it reminded me of the old table top rpg Traveller which is what drew me to EVE in the first place, was that reminder of a fun time.

I just can't play the damn game if my eyes are strained, my neck and back get sore and I end up with a headache due to the @#$#@$ font. That this issue keeps getting ignored year after year just tells me that CCP is not serious about fixing it.

I am an older gamer and I prefer games with a sting, with a good sense of risk/reward mechanics, EVE has that. Too bad the interface blows chunks for readability.


Featured Stories

Betawatch: November 15 - 21, 2014

Posted on Nov 21st 2014 8:00PM

The Stream Team: No more Landmark tour deaths!

Posted on Nov 21st 2014 3:00PM

The Soapbox: In praise of SWTOR's 12X experience

Posted on Nov 21st 2014 12:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW