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Reader Comments (29)

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 6:34PM Frostfell said

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I'm a little worried about the stations as a hub too, ESPECIALLY for Republic for the exact reasons you outlined. It'll be interesting to see how this is dealt with post launch, if it indeed poses a problem to the community. It's hard to tell from the relatively small beta server populations.

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 6:48PM (Unverified) said

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"sticks fingers in ears"

HMHMHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Don't want to know anything about this game until Dec 20th.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Heh heh.

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 6:59PM Dvius said

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You just have to look back to the early MMO's and remember that no matter what or where the game has tried to pigeonhole players into congregating, the actual players control where it happens.

EQ had the commons, even though it was never really a central location, it had the least amount of risk involved. SWG was player cities, but the most popular wasn't set in stone and it often moved around over time. WOW started with Org and Ironforge, before moving to Shattrah, then Dalaran, then back to the original cities in Cata. But for world pvp, it was the players that chose south shore. The devs never told players where to go, everyone just sort of figured out it made sense.

TOR's social hubs will end up being what ever makes the most sense for the players as a whole. It might end up the cities due to the GTN, or it might end up the Fleets due to the flashpoint and operation access. The players have a weird knack of finding their own social locations and the rest of the server follows. It might end up being right off to the side of the Sarlacc.

John from Tor-Talk.

Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 10:00AM Cendres said

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@Dvius You are fantastic sir and completely right. The hubs are still cool, but we'lll have to see how they get used.
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 7:01PM Khal said

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I personally prefer games whose systems organically generate social hubs and social interaction. Like Entertainers (Cantinas) and Doctors (Med Centers) of early SWG. These grew communities because the players involved wanted to and had an avenue to do so.

TOR instead has put a social points system which, from how it is described above, just gives you points for being grouped. Whoopee. Points to get cosmetic things that could have been used as a part of a more robust crafting system.

The first (SWG) seems like a more genuine system as in my view strong community building is done by players who "just want to and have a means to that wasn't designed to be a means to". The latter (TOR) is very clearly artificial and is just another hollow carry and stick system.

That said, yes I will play TOR. But things are what they are and just because I will play it doesn't mean the flaws and shallow points aren't still there.

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 7:27PM Lucidus said

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@Khal Well, there is also forced grouping, where there are "epic" quests in the world with mobs of ridiculously high hit points you have to kill and need a group to accomplish.
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 7:49PM DarkWalker said

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@Lucidus

Forced grouping. One of the things I really dislike in MMOs.

I like having the *option* to group; being able to play, at the correct challenge level, with a few friends, but keeping my ability to play solo if no one else is online.

I despise being locked out of part of the content just because there are too few players online - for example, when I'm playing in the early morning.
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 8:15PM (Unverified) said

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@DarkWalker

I never mind forced grouping - in an MMO, I expect some things to require a group. I guess I am old school. I think a single player game should be for solo play and an MMO should be for group play, at least for a good portion of the game.

TOR, of course, is just the opposite - a single player game trying to adopt "MMO" elements, like rewarding players for being social. Not my cup of tea, but I am sure it will work well for lots of folks.
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Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 10:01AM Cendres said

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@(Unverified) It's not a single player game. Cannot wait for release for this impression to go away. *annoyed*
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Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 4:22PM Khal said

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@Lucidus

Yes, there is forced grouping...of which this new reveal about Social Points causes. It causes it because people will just have to have those things that you get from the social points.

My point in my original post alluded to this and also showed that in the more organic system, where people got together because system in the game vested the players in wanting to, you aren't forced or coerced to by some artificial system such as this Social Points.

But, of course, mention SWG and the TL,DR dregs of this community 1) can't comprehend a point so they -1; 2) "Oh noes, he's attacking mah bebes!" -1.
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 7:04PM (Unverified) said

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Social points? Kinda of a different way to encourage people to group.

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 7:41PM DarkWalker said

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I sincerely prefer GW2's approach:

- No tagging system for mobs. Everyone who takes part on the kill receives full credit, loot, and XP as if he had killed the mob solo. Thus, farming efficiency is now a reason to stick to other players, instead of being, like in most MMOs, a reason to keep away from others. Attempting to killsteal will most likely only help the "griefed" player get his rewards faster.

- In the same line, every player can independently collect any crafting node; for example, if there are 5 players together, each of them can collect the node without reducing what is available to the others.

- Instead of sidequests, there will be events that scale with the number of players. Those are always open to everyone - no need to worry about quest completion status, no need to be in a formal group, no upper limit on the number of players (so, no need to refuse a player just because your group is full), no way to kick someone (and the events are designed in a way that a single player can't intentionally make the event fail), etc. Also, the limited number of events happening simultaneously should naturally draw players together, to the point playing alone might not even be an option; and event rewards are individually awarded to each participating player - no need to roll for loot, ever.
(Incidentally, most events will scale down to solo levels if needed, allowing players to do them even if they are playing during a dead time or in a lowbie zone after everyone has moved on.)

- Apart from instances, formally grouping will not be needed to take part on group activities. Solo players can just begin participating in the event without needing to beg for an invite.

- Each character is able to fulfill any role. Should drastically reduce the time needed to assemble a group; for my part, I will make sure to be ready to take on any role that might be needed (something that TOR won't allow; there is no single AC that can be both Tank and Healer).

- Power level cap for each zone and instance. A higher level character entering a low level zone will see his power reduced to something appropriate for the zone. Thus, friends can play any content together, even if one of them has a much higher level character, without cheesing the content.

- Apparently server transfers will be instant and free, thus making it even easier to play with friends.

- Guilds will span across servers, and players can be part of as many guilds as they want. No need to leave the nice RP guild just because you want to focus on end-game progression for a time.

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 8:40PM Beltyra said

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@DarkWalker
I didn't realize GW2 was already out, past beta, with all those features finalized and set to ship bug free.

:-P
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 9:55PM Radev said

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@DarkWalker Sounds like there's no need to communicate with other players at all out in the world of GW2? Reminiscent of Rift where there's little to no communication whatsoever during zone events due to public grouping.
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 10:20PM DarkWalker said

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@Radev

Which is exactly how I prefer it.

No *need* to communicate - so even shy players can do group content to their heart's content without worries - but the possibility is always there.

Besides, with the possibility to be part of multiple guilds simultaneously - say, a RP guild, a progression guild, and a friends and family guild - I believe I will have way more social interaction just from the multiple guilds than I would have in almost any other MMO (apart from those that also feature multiple guilds and the ones where the social aspect is the main driver).
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Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 5:52AM swtoryeah said

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@DarkWalker

I'm sry who are you trying to convince ? yourself or others to play that MT helll. Your talking about a game with walking rats enough said. Moving on...
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Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 9:47AM DarkWalker said

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@swtoryeah
Of course, a large part of the underworld in the old republic is controlled by a race of giant sapient space slugs... :)

Trying to belittle other games about crazy races while defending Star Wars is most often a losing proposition, you know. The movies alone have enough silly races to beat most non-comical fantasy scenarios. If you include the expanded universe, Star Wars has enough silly races to beat even most *comical* fantasy scenarios.
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Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 12:53PM (Unverified) said

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@DarkWalker
No one cares. GW2 and TOR are two completely different games. They aren't meant to play the same, so don't try to turn TOR into GW2.

Now, don't get me wrong. I want to see both games succeed. I will pay for and play both games. But, don't try to turn merge the two together.
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Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 3:58PM DarkWalker said

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@(Unverified)
In case you didn't notice, the article ended with:

"""What is important to you socially in an MMO? What do you think about what TOR has to offer? What can be done differently? Will you try to gain as many Social Points as you can? Let me know in the comments."""

So, I was just telling how I would prefer the social aspect. Which is the way ANet intends to go with GW2: make it impossible to grief other players, make playing together always better in all aspects (even when the players are not formally grouped), and make playing with other players as easy as just finding an event and jumping into the action (or even just a group of players farming mobs to tag along), while still allowing players to go through almost all of the game solo if they so desire.

Besides, as the article pointed as a positive factor for TOR:

"""We know that if you do world quests with a group, you gain the same amount of XP from the quest giver as if you had done the quest solo, and from what I can tell there is only a nominal difference between killing a mob solo and killing it in a group."""

This is almost identical to what WoW did since it's launch, 7 years ago. Apart from the Social points, TOR seems to have the same social features as WoW and all it's clones.

And I don't see social points as anything really game changing. It's just another form of bribery aimed at making players group together - the same way most MMOs make gear from group content better than anything that can be gotten solo. TOR is basically using the same old incentives to group WoW has been using for the last 7 years; you can see how good those were by looking at how many players group to do anything apart of the minimum required number of instances and raids to reach the weekly VP cap.
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Posted: Nov 1st 2011 8:18PM (Unverified) said

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@DarkWalker

While we differ on the concept of "forced grouping," I 100% agree with you here. I am really looking forward to GW2!

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