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Reader Comments (37)

Posted: Oct 31st 2011 12:27PM Dirame said

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@Anulla

I have a friend who is currently trying out Eve and when I looked over to his computer the rookie help chat was constantly blinking. So yea, I would say it's definitely still there.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 5:00AM Xilmar said

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oh god

Most eve evolved columns are great to read, interesting and whatever else. Sadly, this one isn't.

First off, interviewing one person is a terrible terrible way of gathering inpu, or whatever the goal was. No matter what the test person said, it cannot be considered true, false or anything other than a matter of opinions. Just because your friend had a good/bad/mixed experience, doesn't mean that one or more things are bad/good/meh. Cute interview, like the hundreds out there, but...well, it really doesn't prove anything and all ideas based on them are flimsy.

Secondly...well, i might get called an elitist wanker, but i like the complexity, open ended, brutal in your face everything vibe off eve. And yes, love the fact that quite a few people hear about eve but quit because 1 they're playing alone and/or 2. they're doing it wrong. Like to keep my gaming interaction at a general acceptable level, and it's just easier to have a good time when (old line is old) some random teen isn't experiencing puberty next to me.

Now i'n not trolling or whatever, just being honest. And with that honesty in mind, i'd like to say that incarna was a failure. It lost consumers for CCP, failed to bring in even a decent chunk of new players into the game (as obvious by the prolonged decline in daily activity in game and sub #s). It took up a lot of resources, which is great - innovation should be a top priority, but it failed to deliver on many fronts.

I've been saying for ever that incarna will be(is now) cool, the tech is amazing, CQ with the screen and hangar look awesome, but it will never be the big player resurgence it aimed at. Why? Well, this could go on for ever, but it boils down to the fact that the players that like the sandbox don't care about avatars all that much. Same thing on the other side: someone that needs the wowesque character in front of their screen will not care about some ship that's the same as everyone else's.

I just hope, after everything that's happened since june, people can put it aside and move on. Good or bad, work on incarna iterations seem to have slowed. Hopefully we'll see more on that later, but only after 1 year, when players get fixes, rebalances, better old tools and cool new ones to play with and try to manipulate.
Another apocrypha stretched out this winter and next summer, and they can take most of their time next year to make virtual fashion shows for lady gaga as far as i'm concerned. And for a game that's been going strong for 8+ years, that's not much to ask for imo.

Posted: Oct 31st 2011 5:19AM (Unverified) said

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@Xilmar Complex is fine - complexity for the sake of it is not. I recently tried Eve and found similar things to the interviewee - elements that an Eve player might take for granted are very easy to miss. Getting a handle on what to do and where to go after you finish the tuturial actually took me a while. You might see these things as obvious, but when you're scaling the learning 'curve' that is Eve, they're often not.

Also even though I 'got' scanning after watching a couple of Youtube videos, that was pretty much all the newbie channel was full of - so they either need to mke it easier to get into, or radically improve the ingame tutorial.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 5:52AM (Unverified) said

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@Xilmar

People who care about sandbox dont care about their avatars? What a complete and utter nonsense. That may, possibly, maybe be the case in Eve but sandbox players sure care about their avatars and more importantly care more about immersion (which a good avatars helps with) than your traditional quest based instanced Themepark.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 6:01AM nevin said

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@Xilmar Interviewing one person isn't terrible. In 100% isolation maybe but as you said yourself, the hundreds that are out there provide a trend and these are very valuable.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 6:31AM nilsmmoblog said

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@Xilmar

From which planet are you? Can't be mine.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 3:32PM Xilmar said

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@nevin

the act of interviewing one person isn't sure...but using those opinions as proof or basis for something or other is.

idk, maybe it's just me, but i did not find the interview to...have a point
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 4:24PM Xilmar said

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@(Unverified)

I see those things as obvious now, just because i've been playing for a few years. Nothing was obvious when i started. In fact, with just the crash course, i did not know what stargates are or how to travel anywhere.

But you know what happened? I was talking to a guy who explained it to me, then gave me some isk for a better frig. Next day i was in his corp,

It's not a bad thing at all, but just like Kajatta, i assume that you didn't join a corp...a decent one. I guess it's the freedom that makes most people (myself included) unable to find a good starting point.

And it's easy and fun to learn, if you like it. Join eve uni or other academies, and ask good questions (not what do i do in eve). Or join a merc/pirate corp in low sec. Or join a renter corp in 0.0. Or directly join a 0.0 alliance. We had one guy last night in a fleet that started a couple days ago and got his first kills.

Just pick either pve or pvp, join a corp that does that, and enjoy the game. Just as your char gains skill point, so do you as a player. It takes time and practice. You can't do heroic raids in wow the first day you start playing, or the first month maybe. Same thing here

And scanning is interesting. But it's a lot more fun if you're chatting with your mates while you scan for a wormhole to make billions, or a ship to blow it up.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 5:51AM (Unverified) said

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Incarna was supposed to increase immersion and make you more connected with your avatar. However CCP got greedy and instead tried to turn it into a shameless money-grab so the fault is all on their side for the people not embracing it.

Posted: Oct 31st 2011 9:32AM heerobya said

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I actually thought the new player experience was fine.

Between all the tutorials, career agents, and bread-crumbs to the Sisters of EvE story arc I thought that for those first few weeks EvE does just fine.

It's after that though, for the not-quite-new EvE player that thing really fall flat IMO.

You can either join a corp (and EVE U is really only choice for a true noob and the wait period is atrocious) or you can start grinding missions.

The skill gain starts slowing down after the first few weeks where instead of hours you get into days. I found myself logging in less and less waiting 2-3 days for a new skill and even when I did I'd run a few missions then log off and wait for more skills...

They really need to do something to bump up the early-mid game to make things far more interesting once you've gone passed the trial/noob time frame.

Posted: Oct 31st 2011 11:27AM fallwind said

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my "NPE" was before Incara, but a lot of what Kajatta said sounds familiar.

I was so disappointed that I didn't get to actually fly my ship. Right-click, dropdown, dropdown, select target, orbit at distance doesn't count. I hoped I would be able to rig up a joystick and actually FLY! what I got felt more like a rail shooter without the shooting.

The UI is needlessly complex and SLOW to use. Why should it take that many mouse clicks to go from a gate to a station/planet? I understand CCP wants you to die to pirates but there are better ways to do that then a crappy interface.

But what killed the game for me was just how little there was for me to do. Sure, there as nulsec and PVP, and I was looking forward to doing that... in about 5 months of training. Belts were mined out hours ago, never once saw a rat, I wanted to team up with my husband and go mining (I collect the ore, he watches my back) but after gods know how many hours of him just orbiting me without firing a shot we had to admit just how little there was to do for a small group. It was mega-corp, solo missions or gtfo.

Posted: Oct 31st 2011 1:30PM Vandal said

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Very interesting experiment. I'm looking forward to reading more about the impressions of someone who has never tried EVE.

So far, it's becoming a checklist of why I will not play EVE. UI design a fundamental element of any game design and I despise games that do not put effort into a decent UI. Reading comments from EVE vets admitting the UI needs work confirms my decision not to touch this game until CCP steps up and fixes this basic feature.

The lack of tutorials is another point. Giving players complete freedom no excuse to dump them into the setting with no guidance about how the game works.

It will be interesting to see the continued reactions of Kajatta.

Posted: Oct 31st 2011 5:02PM Tanesis said

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@Vandal
"UI design a fundamental element of any game design and I despise games that do not put effort into a decent UI"

Its not so much that the UI is not decent. Tweaking the overview settings and readjusting the chat boxes can feed back a vast amount of information. Its more that the UI is not intuitive and the overview for example (the big info pane with stuff thats on grid and in system. Initially all down the left of the screen) is difficult to manipulate and as far as I know there is no tutorial for that at all.

The tutorials these days aren't that terrible actually I believe they are rather good, maybe just missing a few things. I think as Heerobya posted the problems arise once the tutorials are completed and the new player storyarc has been finished. Without the rollercoaster your left thinking what the hell do I do now?

I think at this point a more active tutorial style feature should help new players find a player ran corp rather than the more passive corp finder.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 1:59PM Oskiee said

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Ive tried EVE on and off for the last 3 years, only playing a few months at a time. The UI is horribly confusing and complex, but you get used to it after a while.

The thing that turns me off though is that the game is so incredibly boring. i dont like pvp much, and the pve comes down to balancing your defenses/resistances so you can Shield/Armor tank well enough so you dont die while shooting the endless ships that some missions throw at you.

Posted: Nov 1st 2011 12:47AM Ragemaster9999 said

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@Oskiee

If you dont like PVP then your really playing the wrong game. Eve is all about competiton between players even when your not directly killing eachother. Theres alot of negative perception of pvp in EVE, especially for people who hate losing, but once you get over it and into a good pvp corp with competent fcs you soon realize the magic of the game.
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Posted: Oct 31st 2011 4:48PM Tanesis said

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I first started playing EVE when a friend recommended it to me. Many of the problems I encounterd then are mentioned in this article however I joined my friends corp on day 1 so was easier to ask for help and intergrate with other players.

The problem was however that while they were fighting in Ahacs across null I was flying my Kestrel in Empire and with no real direction. I stopped playing because their playstyle and fleet comps was not suited to a new player (or so I thought then).

Arround a year later I retried EVE and joined an empire war dec PVP corp and things were a lot more enjoyable as I flew regularly with people some of whom are now friends and I still play with. Since then I now live in NPC null and can fly a wider selection of ships with which to pewpew and haven't looked back.

I think the most important thing for newer players, IMO more so than UI, is getting in with the right corp with the right people who do the right things. Even an 8 hour station/gate camp can be fun when done with the right people. The new corp finder is a start but I think it needs slightly more work, especially allowing more detail and search criteria and highlighting more in the tutorials.

Tan,

P.s interesting article I'll look forward to reading more about your friends tentative first step into EVE.

Posted: Nov 2nd 2011 5:03PM missingpiece said

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What a lovely experiment. I'm looking forward to reading the next installment.

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