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Reader Comments (64)

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:12PM irontroll said

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pssttt :P get me into the beta :)

and keep the info coming

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:15PM Tezcatli said

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If it's still use material "x" to build item "Y", with Y being the exact same thing other people craft, then it's still the same old boring crafting.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:37PM Larry Everett said

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@Tezcatli
Actually, crafting isn't necessarily about making the gear as it is gathering the right resources and playing the auction house.

From what I've seen, there will be plenty of both.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 4:21PM sortius said

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@Tezcatli

"If it has pixels the game is going to be exactly the same as every other game"

See, it's easy to think you understand something, but really you don't. The system is vastly different in its application. The whole point of crafting is... well... to craft stuff. You sound like you don't like crafting, well, guess what, YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!!

Having been in the beta, I'm quite happy with the system, sure, needs tweaks, but it's a damn sight better than having to go gathering for hours then spend hours crafting to level your skills.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 4:30PM JoeH42 said

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@Tezcatli *snickers* And how would YOU make a crafting system that didn't involve gathering materials and then making them into something? Maybe you need to look up the word(s) "craft" or "crafting" in a dictionary because you don't seem to understand what those words mean.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 4:47PM Tezcatli said

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@JoeH42 So companies should just continue to make the same tired system in every MMO that comes out? And the notion of "You don't have to craft!" is just a cheap way of writing off someone's opinion. It'd be nice if a person could actually do something to effect the quality of what they're making. To make it different from the thousands of others doing it.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 4:48PM (Unverified) said

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@JoeH42

I think you miss the point of his post. Most MMOs have crafting systems where you gather resources (which are all the same for a specific type) and then you use them to craft something, which all end up exactly the same. Boring. A few games, particularly the soon-to-be-departed SWG (may LucasArts rot in hell for killing it) had a much deeper, complex (i.e. not boring) system, whereby resources had particular spawns of differing qualities, and crafters had different skills (depending on gear, buffs, etc.) which could then produce items of differing quality.

In WoW, for example, craft a particular sword and it is EXACTLY THE SAME as every sword crafted by every player. In SWG, by contrast, depending on the particular crafter and the resources he/she used, the quality could vary considerably.

Given TOR's trend to simplification, I suspect it will fall into the WoW camp, only you won't actually even do the gathering/crafting.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 5:35PM syberghost said

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@(Unverified) you don't actually do the crafting in SWG, either. You click a button and then pixels do the crafting.

ONO, IN TOR IT'S THE WRONG PIXELS!
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 5:39PM Larry Everett said

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@(Unverified)

TORs crafting is not as "simple" as WoW's. It's certainly not the most complex, but there is enough interdependency to make it interesting.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 5:53PM (Unverified) said

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@syberghost

Let me see if I can put this in terms you can understand. Of course it is all pixels. That is true of all online games.

But the quality of the end product varies in some MMOs (SWG and Vanguard, for example) while in games like WoW, all crafted goods of a particular type are exactly the same.

One is interesting, because you are motivated to improve your crafting skill, resources, etc. One is not so interesting, because once you learn a recipe, every item you make will. be. exactly. the. same. as. everyone's. elses.

Now, try not to let your ardent passion for TOR overwhelm you too much. I am not criticizing TOR's crafting as I have ZERO experience with it (and I intend to keep it that way). I am simply saying that it would be better if it were more like SWG/Vangard and less like WoW. Or, to make it even easier for you:

SWG Crafting Good. WoW Crafting Bad. But yes, in the end, they are all just pixel dust.

Now, go curl up and read a good Star Wars book. You'll feel better.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:56PM Thasri said

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@(Unverified)
Nope, sometimes you get a surprise.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 1:51AM (Unverified) said

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@Tezcatli I agree to an extent. It is kind of more of the same, but with the companions, crit abilities, missions, etc - it does make it SOMEWHAT more unique.

Is it unique like a Vanguard or EQ2 crafting system? Not even close. Would I have preferred a MORE unique crafting system - yes. Does it bother me how it is, not really.

And similar to when Aion or Rift came out and people complained about their crafting systems being the same pretty much - the only people who tend to argue the strongest that it's "just the way crafting is" are the ones who have never played a game with an actual original and complex crafting system. Ignorance basically.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 6:03AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified) From everything seen and heard crafting isn't as simple as WoW, nor as complex as SWG, but somewhere in between, with various variables and factors that don't play a role in crafting as basic as in WoW or other themepark MMO's, but not as many variables as crafting in SWG.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 11:34AM (Unverified) said

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@Tezcatli I agree that everyone ending up with item Y, with very little variance is boring design. Also, I think lots of people are so programmed in the gaming community to accept what 'crafting' means. People need to look at crafting *IRL* .. think of anyone artistic that you know. As a random example, think of someone who crafts custom PC case mods. Some are unique and amazing!

Even if a game system couldn't allow for infinite options considering there are finite 3D models for items, there are ways to allow at least visual differences... collectable components that take effort to acquire, color options that allow for creativity.

Wouldn't people enjoy being able to craft a gun with a dye combination, and a more ornate barrel (as an example)... you stamp your name on it, and YOU.. unique to the whole game, can build a reputation for crafting visually appealing items. Even just allowing a very wide range of color choices on item subcomponents could enable this sort of system.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:21PM Space Cobra said

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Hmm, still confusing.

Ultimately, I guess, the game wants you to be good at making one class of items, so you get the related skills. I forget, but it's 3 skills per character and companions or 3 skills for you and 3 skills for each companion?

If it's only 3 skills, having 14 seems kinda an off-number (3x4 = 12; should be 12 skills). I guess the other two add some flavor, but looking at your list, CyberTech and SynthWeaving benefits from FIVE gathering skills and the others only benefit from 2-3. I wonder if that means it is "harder" to a skill like Armorsmech or more specialized?

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:38PM Larry Everett said

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@Space Cobra
It's 3 per character -- everyone has the same skills. So yes, at best you can master one type of crafting.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 4:32PM Mystal said

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@Space Cobra

Yes, unfortunately your companions don't actually have any crafting skills of their own, so they just make the same things that you would make if this were a game with no companions.

I would have liked to see each companion get at least one crafting skill of their own, sort of a specialization that could cover for you (albeit much less frequently than if you had the skill yourself).

From talking to some people in beta, crafting is kind of borked anyway. There are a few skills such as slicing and diplomacy with rather unique or plentiful perks, and others that are very narrow or underpowered.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:28PM BigAndShiny said

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The corridors under the senate dome in coruscant. Now that is a maze I'll tell you.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:38PM Azikiwe said

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So "companion" is going to be the cheeky terminology for slave labor huh?
"Where'd you get that armor chest piece?" "From my 'companions' in China"

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 3:53PM Space Cobra said

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@Azikiwe

From your PANDAAREN companions in China; get that terminology right!

;)
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