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Reader Comments (23)

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 10:08AM HiroProtagonist7 said

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I agree with the fact that there is room for everything.

The reference to Wrath of Heroes got me thinking though. In a battle arena type game there really isn't much needed in the way of cosmetic things - it's an arena, right? What does this leave to buy in an item shop? Is it going to be pay to win by default?

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 10:53AM Skyydragonn said

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@HiroProtagonist7
Have you seen league of legends? MOST of its income is through selling cosmetic "skins" for champions. yes you can buy the champions as well or earn them free from gameplay. otherwise there really isn't a lot to purchase and yet its one of the most successful MOBA games out there.
Also, there is NOTHING you can buy with real cash taht impacts gameplay directly. the minor exception is summoner runes but they're earnable through gameplay at a fairly quick rate as well.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:08AM HiroProtagonist7 said

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@Skyydragonn

huh. That's cool. Thanks for answering :)
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 10:23AM dudes said

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With International trade slumps going on and getting worse even as I type, I hope Mythic's attitude doesn't come back to haunt them by making them eat their non-friendly words towards WO:AoR going F2P. Looking forward to the new WO f2p ttile though.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 10:31AM Scuffles said

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Really really really easy..... don't try to force the cash shop on your free playing crowd. Someone who chooses to use the cash shop because they are enjoying the game is likely to continue to use it. Where as someone who feels forced into using it ..... is likely to start looking for another F2P game.

You don't win customers with abusive cash shops.

Secondly and I can not stress this enough ..... the masses who will likely never use your cash shop are just as important if not more so than your "paying" customers. Why you ask? Simple because they flush out your world and there is nothing worse than an empty MMO. Those F2P dregs are keeping your paying customers playing and for that matter paying, simple as that. You lose your Free population you are going to start seeing your paying population looking for a more populated MMO.

The free to play masses keep your paying customers from leaving.

Thirdly .... any and everything in the cash shop should always be TRADEABLE.... not making everything tradeable is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. At the end of the day it doesn't matter who ends up with the items from the cash shop, simply that someone somewhere bought them. Sure someone who never gave you a dime might end up with all the cash shop gear.... all that means is even tho they didn't execute the transaction themselves they were a motivator in said transaction.

A transaction is a transaction regardless of who makes it, don't ignore a driving force.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 10:53AM Skyydragonn said

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"going on to say that the Mythic branch was learning a lot about polish and quality from the BioWare team."
yeah, about that polish and quality....good to see someones finally teaching them what it means.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 2:08PM Vandal said

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@Skyydragonn Exactly. Old school MMO developers have all needed to learn that lesson.

They were used to all those years when the niche MMO market was blind enough to pay to beta-test flawed and bug-filled games and still praise developers for releasing them. That doesn't work anymore in the modern market.

Something for which we can all be thankful.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 7:31PM ShivanSwordsman said

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@Vandal

Really? Because I still see the Call of Duty and Battlefield games selling like Hotcakes. Everyone's has the hotsweats for Star Wars KOTOR, even though it has the korean style "class advancement" mechanic and a terrible-looking plot, tons of people bought Global Agenda (my own dumbass included), and the ripoffs just keep coming. People are still as stupid as ever.

Hell, people are still paying to RENT their characters with monthly fees. Everyone's still paying $15 for access to the game they already paid $50 for, not including the other $50 expansions that still come out for it. If anything, gamers are even DUMBER than they used to be. Look at City of Heroes, who cuts out crafting an an end-game system that completely imbalances the game (Incarnates) from free players, and Champions Online, which SELLS you nerfed archetypes rather than letting you have the free form system to build your character.

I rest my case.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:09AM smartstep said

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Well there is room for both pure subscription , for f2p and for freemoum models.

I am really NOT SURE though if game studios do KNOW what games consumers want to see with certain model.

If they do one game = one model (either freemium or p2p or f2p) , I do think they may give wrong models to wrong games.

For example I do think free to play is way to go in MOBA games. It really does fit there.

Freemium may work I think for games like D&D which are basically instance based with some graphic lobby to join.

I personally do NOT accept though ANY kind of cash shop, fremmium, etc in full fledged mmorpg's.

That does not mean though I will play Swtor. Setting aside fact if it will be fully fledged mmorpg.

Even though this game will use my favourite p2p model (and at least now there is no $ cash shop) I won't play Swtor just because of that.

It does not seem like type of game I enjoy.

Multiple business model do have one disadvantage.

Will be harder to find a mmorpg for me to play.

Because not only I will need right game gameplay wise, but atm it will have to be right gameplay + right business model.

Good business model itself won't do.
Same as good gameplay with business model I don't like won't do either.

Already I decided I will skip TSW even though It seem like I might had some fun with it. But I recently became really strict with my principles (and actually feeling quite well with it) that I won't play a game that is P2P + cash shop especially that they'er planning to systematicaly expand this cash shop + officially stated that they're doing this due to AoC experiences.

Well AoC item shop and model is horrid for me.

I am tired with hopping between mmorpg's in last years every month.

I am looking for ONE game that I will commit to for long.

Don't have to tell that in this scenario hands down best business model for me is PURE P2P.

Damn shame that Swtor is not type of game I want to play. It is too casual, too instance focused, already admitted that LFG tool is gonna be included (which I loathe) and game too solo-focused for my tastes.

Those above things are not bad 'per se' but they just don't suit my personal tastes.

I am sure game will be polished and many ppl will have loads of fun with it though.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 5:01PM epilepticemu said

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@smartstep

Woah. Woah. WOAH WOAH. Woah... Lois, this is not my batman glass.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:23AM SiML said

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I'll give Star Wars a look WHEN it goes F2P freemium hybrid. I will most probably spend money in it's shop as well, but no way am I spending the best part of £500 a year to play TOR at its current subscription rate especially when there are no details for it's updates.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 12:33PM (Unverified) said

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@SiML

Then you wont be giving it a look. TOR will not go Subscription free. That I promise you.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:27AM Space Cobra said

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A few problems with this statement:

1) EA still has a say in things; they still own the majority share of Warhammer. While EA may change it's mind about going free-to-play, it would take ALOTTA budging!

2) Warhammer : WoH is such a "little" game. It may be fun, but its a smaller component from a larger game and could be considered a mini-game among other mini-games. This comment is like saying, "Here is a penny that I'll invest in your company. If I see the investment rise about one billion times and make a profit, then I'll spend the time/effort/money to REALLY invest with you!" :P

WoH is such a *little* game. While it could prove to draw people in (since it IS fun; well, I did like the Arenas in the main game), if it fails, I could see this as an example EA/Bioware/whateverStudioEAboughtOut tacks on their company wall and points to as an example of why f2p doesn't work (for them).

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:36AM Yellowdancer said

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Is there really room for both?

I'm struggling with buying TOR. Between my X-box, PS3, and Sub MMOs that have gone F2P or Freemium, I don't feel a need to sub to a game right now. It would be nice to have a sci-fi/space game but I can wait for ME3 and STO goes F2P this month, I think. I don't have to have light sabers.

I donno. I used to be on the sub only time but I'm changing camps. I think other gamers are starting to question the sub only model also.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:48AM Lucidus said

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If there is a subscription, there must be an aggressive update schedule like Rift or better -- or it's a scam.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:58AM (Unverified) said

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WAR can be f2p if it wanted to. Since the game is already setup into tiers, just charge an extra $5-$10 for the later tiers. Premium can be the PvE dungeons and zones, special mounts, increased rates of gain, and so on. It will draw in more bodies into the armies, especially at the lower levels, and keeps it dynamic.

Mythic's has never thought about f2p yet for its games. UO is pretty interesting because having a free shard is legal, so if UO was made f2p ... what server would you play on? Never played DAOC :/ Those games are harder to make it go f2p because they are sandbox games. Sometimes, the f2p model doesn't go well with the game type.

Best way to monetize it is to give what the player wants but that doesn't necessarily means its good for the game.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 2:29PM Ehra said

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@(Unverified)

I couldn't see DAoC working as a F2P game. The reason to play it is PvP, so the only real way I could imagine Mythic could monetize a cash shop would be to sell classes, gear, realm ranks, and so on. Which would obviously piss everyone off.

Not to mention the game is old and it's built on a crappy foundation that was hard enough for the original team to work with, much less any new people they'd have to bring in and learn everything. To this day my Friar still has strength as a primary stat and doesn't get a single point of dex while leveling, even though Dex is what improves their melee attacks and strength does nothing for them.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 12:44PM real65rcncom said

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I'm guessing about now Bioware wishes they could drop their last name like a battered wife can drop her married name.

It's like a visual anchor of dread and doom when you see "Mythic" attached to your name.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 1:22PM blackcat7k said

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"While a number of older MMOs have gone free-to-play in recent years, Evans says, "there's a whole community that doesn't want that. We decided that there's a lot of things you have to get right about a free-to-play game for it to be successful..."

Yeah, I would say Free-to-Play is great idea... IF and only IF you don't intend to make it Pay-to-Win.

If a company wants to sell their XP Boosters, Item Drop Boosters, or just flat out sell items for Cash (Under the guise of: "It's because of the Chinese gold/item sellers that we're doing this. It's because we love our players that we're becoming the gold/item seller to better protect them) ... Well all I can say is more power to them.

They'll add a bonus here and there for cash while crying down anyone that raises a concern that the game is going "Pay-to-Win". Then they'll wonder why there will be a sharp drop off in customers later when the players figure out they're being fleeced in order to make their character powerful enough to compete.

If developers are going to make a game then they need to think like the people who promote football/soccer/basketball/baseball games. No money touches the actual game execution of the players in arena of play.

No team gets to drop cash to get ahead of the other team when they're down X points. However everything OUTSIDE of the arena of play is monetized to the hilt, because people will buy that without a second thought because they enjoy being a part of the game.

DEVELOPERS! WAKE UP! FREE TO PLAY, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Animations
Skins
Models
Sounds

If people like the game they will want to drop cash on that stuff to further customize their experience! Stop looking at East Asian MMO F2P schemes!

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 1:37PM NeverDeath said

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Bioware (Let's not make jokes here, Mythic is pretty much dead), is absolutely playing favorites, or as I prefer to call it, spitting in the eye of every Warhammer subscriber who has paid over the years or who still checks back to see if the game is out of alpha yet, especially the ones who have stuck with it all this time. Instead of giving them a return on their investment, fixing anything in that game which is so rife with pathing/AI bugs, class issues, a dearth of content which has always existed, and so on - You go and make a stripped-down, cell-shaded version minus all of what makes an MMO an MMO, and basically open up a MOBA based on its engine, where you don't have to fix most of what's broken.

Chicken shit. No way I'm ever touching another Bioware game, this is a huge black spot on their record for those who know about it. I don't play Warhammer, haven't for quite some time, but I do keep up with it enough to know that 90% of what's been broken is still broken. That's not the point at which the team in charge of the game goes pursuing other ventures at the expense of any loyal paying customers they have left (which may not be that many due to their own incompetence).

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