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Reader Comments (49)

Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:17PM Faction 3 said

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When I read that every class is only going to have a single talent tree...

I literally pissed myself laughing. I did. I freely admit to tinkling my boxers a bit.

Not just because having 1 tree per class is a complete ^&*#ing joke, but also because this'll be the 3rd time they overhauled the talent trees in 3 expansions...

After almost 7 years, you'd think they'd have a solid, concrete plan on what the hell to do with Class synergy, mechanics, roles, PvP performance, etc.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:29PM yeppers said

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@Faction 3

This... definitely wouldn't draw me back. It's like taking the crack WoW used to be and turning it into a flavored drink that tastes just like Pepsi and doesn't have all the effects of crack. Hey Blizzard... I'm a Coke drinker so I'll just stick with Coke. It's a lot cheaper than what you're trying to pass off as crack these days.

Oh... and... Kung-fu Panda Express Orange Chicken sauce.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:32PM J45neoboy said

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@Faction 3

Rift's talent tree is fine enough, and honestly, I didn't see anything wrong with the talent trees until Cataclysm...Blizzard get your head outta there and stop fixing what isn't broken.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:39PM JuliusSeizure said

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@Faction 3

Honestly, if you look closely at the design, it's pretty damn inspired and does away with all the problems they've had. Final implementation may or may not succeed, but the core principles are frankly brilliant.

And I say this as someone who's so over WoW that even pandas won't bring me back.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:54PM Wild Colors said

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@Faction 3

Radically overhauling the talent trees is a way of refreshing the game. Even if you (like most) are simply sticking with your max level characters, this provides you with a new set of min-maxing to learning, a new rotation to play around with, and some new skills to enjoy.

They do this to keep people interested. And it works.


That said, I've enjoyed Rift's system much more than WoW's, though WoW has a much better world/setting.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 9:24PM prfella said

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@Faction 3

And how is that any different exactly from the current system where you choose one specialization and one tree, and you're essentially locked out of the other two trees?

Also you have access to all the talents, but you can only have 6 active at any given time. You can activate any of them at any time, similar to the current Glyph system. So you can tailor your specialization to each encounter in a raid, for example.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 11:14PM Utakata said

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@Faction 3

Maybe "tinkling your boxers a bit" was bit "more information than I needed to know." But your absolutely right. The current system is working fine...all they needed to do was drop the splash restrictions if they wanted to get away with discouraging cookie builds. The saying goes...if it isn't broke, why replace it?

As for the other claims here that this would keep the game fresh and interesting, baloney. This goes along with the stupid mentality when voters throw out sitting politicians because they want "change"...only to vote someone far in who is far worst. I find Blizz's current proposal dreadful. They're taking all the intelligence out of building your character, IMO. This is a change I don't want. So this is a no sell for me and I suspect for many others as well. /shrug
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 11:44PM (Unverified) said

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@JuliusSeizure
I have high hopes for the talent system. Now that they've separated the concept of talents and specs (a fact which many people do not understand at this point), they've left players to make their own choices, but there are so few points to spend per tier (only one per tier, in fact) that everyone won't turn out the same, even if they choose the same class and spec. Rather than being faced with a tree that contains a few excellent, must-have talents among a slew of moderate to useless talents, each choice will mean something and help define a character's build. Many people should really read into what the new talent tree and specs are all about before they jump to conclusions about Blizzard "dumbing the game down again", but between the jaded ex-fans and those who hate WoW simply because it is WoW, it's hard to imagine that many of the nay-sayers will ever actually make the effort to research. I hope those people will research, so that they can at least make informed posts of hatred and doom, and if anyone's curious to know about WoW's future one-talent-tree system, I find this article to be informative and useful: http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2011/10/the-new-talent-system/
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 6:09AM (Unverified) said

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@JuliusSeizure

I'll agree that Blizzard's goal to make no cookie-cutter builds is admirable though their implementation is lacking. For anyone that has previewed the talent builds and seriously gone through them making talent choices you'll probably be left less than satisfied. Use Wowhead's MoP talent calculator: http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

This new talent system does not feel fun nor is it that interesting. It is yet another victim of Blizzard's generic polishing. In their unnatural fervor to make the game balanced in all its aspects to curry favor to all the whiners, Blizzard has been chipping away at the flavor of WoW. Having one talent tree for all the specs of a class makes those talents generic. How can they not be when they have to fit for all three specs?

The class system used to have much more interesting distinctions among the various classes and specs. It wasn't as polished that's for sure, but it was interesting at the very least. I hate how they've handed out similar abilities to the specs that fill a certain role. It makes the differences between classes less significant. You start to wonder what's the point of playing one class over the other when it comes down to minor differences in spell animations at that point.

Blizzard should go back to the talent system from WotLK and prior and iterate on it. Create interesting choices in a bigger talent tree. Jam pack them full of talents so it doesn't feel like the player is being herded into one of three talents at each milestone. I found it much more satisfying to choose talent points at every level than when they changed it in Cataclysm to every other or so. I can only imagine how agonizingly boring it will be to do it every fifteen levels in MoP.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 6:42AM JuliusSeizure said

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@(Unverified)

That's not exactly how it works, from what I know. Specialisation will still be chosen at level 10, as in the Cataclysm model. It's simply that you'll get everything you need to make that spec work as you level up and train. Think of that as the cookie cutter build that already exists, just minus the chance of spending your points wrong. Now, the new talents system is a layer on top of that, where personal customisation actually takes place, where it essentially did not before.

Also, I'm pretty sure they're keeping Glyphs around, so that's another area where you can play with your spec.

I can't speak to whether it's fun or interesting. The trees as they've released them clearly are not the finished product, even beta testing is not for a good while yet, and just reading them over is never going to be as fun or interesting as hands-on practical experience. But, like I said, the core ideas they're presenting are promising, the real question is whether they can deliver on that promise.

I don't feel the talents are particularly generic or bland, though. At least, no more than the old ones were, given that most of the new talents are derived from existing abilities. And the ones that aren't tend to have strange little functions not quite like anything that already exists. For example, the level 15 Paladin Talent that's essentially like a Rogue's sprint, but causes you to radiate healing to nearby allies for the duration. It's actually probably the weakest talent on that tier, regardless of spec (even for Holy, because the heal numbers are unlikely to be significant), but it is strange and nifty. And it does fill the same niche as the other two (speed boost) in a way that might suit some players more than those others.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 9:45AM (Unverified) said

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@JuliusSeizure

I know about the first point you mentioned, no worries.

Glyphs are already min-maxed so unless they revamp those, it'll be the top performing ones slotted most of the time. Though I'll agree they allow customization to some degree which is better than nothing.

I can only hope that you're right that the talents will be greatly fleshed out, at least more so than what's been previewed. And I was also pointing out the process of picking one talent of three every fifteen levels. You get the rest of your spec abilities automatically so it feels kind of weird to know your choices are even fewer and far between. I find it not as fun to have even less control over my character's customization.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:33PM J45neoboy said

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Ehh, I've seen nothing this week that would bring me back to WoW. I'm content with Aion right now as well as the upcoming MMOs.

Posted: Oct 24th 2011 6:29AM drunkingamebar said

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@J45neoboy Not even if Jack Black is the end game boss?
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 4:00PM J45neoboy said

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@drunkingamebar

Well.....maybe then....XD
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 9:06PM Nenene said

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

World of Warcraft presents: Disney's Mulan-- The Quest for Pokemon's Gold, starring Kung-Fu Panda. So easy, even a caveman could do it!

The only way they could jump this shark any harder is by giving you a talent tree that gives you one point when you reach max level and you can spend it on one of three buttons that's installed in the middle of your UI with a big flashing neon border that says 'CLICK ME'. The three buttons are 'Tank', 'Heal', and 'Damage'. What happens is that you queue up in a major city (in between Pokemon battles) for a 'raid' and then the Raid Finder throws you together in a PUG and you do a 'raid'. Raids consist of a large glowing mob voiced by Chris Metzen that bellows 'HIT ME FOR SHINY PURPZ'. Then you frantically mash your one button, and after a suitable period of time, the mob dies. Congratulations!

The extra space on the UI will be filled with a button to go directly to your in-game Facebook app, a built-in scrolling tutorial (just in case you're confused by all those 'things' out in the world), and a easy one-click redirect to Blizzard's cash shop!

We're looking at the wave of the future here.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 9:27PM JuliusSeizure said

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@Nenene

Impressive levels of nerdrage you're generating there. Just spectacular work restraining yourself from taking time to look at the details of the announcements and creating an informed opinion. Skimming headlines is all anyone really needs to know something is apocalyptic fail, right? :D
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 10:08PM Nenene said

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@JuliusSeizure
I don't know what in my post made you think I didn't carefully read every announcement that came out of Blizzcon before I ventured an opinion, but rest assured that I'm not really -angry- about what's going on with this expansion. I'm really just kind of tired and depressed.

I'm sorry if that deprives you of an excuse to ignore everything I said, but c'est la vie.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 10:33PM Saker said

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@Nenene Well said, well written!
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 10:40PM JuliusSeizure said

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@Nenene

Then how come you've completely missed the fact that the new Talent system actually raises complexity by making the concept of the 'cookie cutter build' redundant? Yes, it's streamlined and simplistic on the surface, but stripping it down has finally given players the opportunity to customise characters to their playstyle.

That's always been the problem with Talents; they provide so many options that there can't help but be a best way to arrange them. Narrowing it down and giving a choice that at each tier works to the same end in different ways allows for -personal- optimisation without necessitating one true way for all players. That means a lot more thought and experimentation for everyone to find what works best for them, instead of simply copying everyone else.

Also, your objection to the Pandaren stuff is, like, your opinion, man.

(For reference, I like everything I've heard, but none of it fixes my problems with WoW so I'm still not going back. Good on them for not being afraid to shake things up, though.)
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 10:43PM JuliusSeizure said

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@Nenene

Also, read over your comment in a day or two, after you've had some distance, and tell me it doesn't read like a reactionary, spiteful rant with no actual substance or evidence to support it.
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