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Reader Comments (92)

Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 6:13PM Wild Colors said

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I've got to admit that I have trouble believing DUST will generate much revenue if it's locked to the PS3, but I'll keep my fingers crossed that it generates enough to allow the development on World of Darkness to continue.

If all else fails, I hope CCP is willing to sell off rights for the WoD MMO, because regardless of what happens to EVE, WoD deserves to exist.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:28PM Celtar said

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@Wild Colors

Agreed on the PS3 thing, in this house we nolonger buy things by Sony nor Apple for that matter. Though at least 3 in this house would love to play Dust, we wont due to the PS3 tie in.

To me it sounds as if the management of CCP haven't learned their lesson on how to treat customers. If they are still down talking customer unhappiness, they've become arrogant and blind. Which could be their undoing.

Thanks to Brendan Drain for an insightful article on the problems of CCP. Hopefully someone will buy a clue sooner than later and this company will not totally end up becoming a "what could have been" scenarios.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:59PM (Unverified) said

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@Wild Colors
Then again, PS3 owners will happily play even Killzone, so maybe not all is lost.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:43PM Kalmanaka said

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@Wild Colors CCP really has no choice but to release DUST to the PS3 only. MS will not allow XBox games to connect live to PC games which is a requirement for DUST, and as for the Wii? Well...lol on that one.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:56PM Wild Colors said

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@Kalmanaka

But why not release DUST for PC as well? CCP's stated reason is that they are afraid it would eat into subscription sales for EVE, but that rings a bit false for me...the games are quite distinct in terms of look, feel, and game play.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 9:05PM HokieKC said

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@Kalmanaka -There are actually three PC-Xbox 360 cross-platform games. I still say Sony paid CCP something to have Dust 514 exclusive.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 9:07PM Brendan Drain said

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@Wild Colors It's basically because CCP wants to tap into the console market, and if PC players were allowed to compete with console gamers, the mouse-and-keyboard controls would provide far too great an advantage. The only option would be to segregate the PC and console players, which wouldn't really work with a sandbox MMO thats main feature is a single persistent universe.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 9:13PM Brendan Drain said

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@HokieKC Some of those games were released before Microsoft made its harsh networking rules. It's also permitted to run cross-platform servers IF the developer moves the server itself to within Microsoft's internal network. That obviously can't be done for Dust as players will be connecting to the main Tranquility EVE server cluster, which is a supercomputer managed by IBM in London.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 12:41AM starbuck1771 said

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@Wild Colors I agree I will not be playing EVE or DUST because DUST should have been for the PC not consoles. CCP has been promising us a ground game for years to to have them put it on a console system is a slap in the face.
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 1:57AM oddshrub said

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@Wild Colors

DUST is basically an advanced type of MAG isn't it? MAG has done alright, but it hasn't done as well as CCP hopes DUST will.

Now I'm no analyst but I'm willing to bet one isk that more people are interested in WoD than DUST and Incarna combined.

I mean they're still developing walking in stations even though they've had to add ship spinning, which basically allows you to completely ignore the captains quarters... the main focus of their development process this year...
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Posted: Oct 24th 2011 11:46AM Dain Bramage said

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@Celtar
"Agreed on the PS3 thing, in this house we nolonger buy things by Sony nor Apple for that matter. Though at least 3 in this house would love to play Dust, we wont due to the PS3 tie in."

"In this house" - seriously? Speaking in the archaic patriarchal 3rd person is so over done.

On a more serious note though, it's really sad to hear about the lay offs. Just found out one of my friends was a casualty. What makes it worse for those in the Atlanta office is that there aren't a lot of jobs for them to just transition to in that market even in the best of markets so if they can find jobs a lot of people are going to be having to deal with relocation costs as well.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 12:40AM (Unverified) said

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@Wild Colors
What no one seems to realise is that developers don't just decide to make a exclusive at random (in fact multiplatform games tend to have higher overall sales so there has to be an additional reason). This article clearly shows that CCP has some financial issues (at the least that their outgoing costs exceed their income and they can't support development of 3 games on Eve only money). So the question here is: do you really think Sony didn't give them a nice chunk of cash to make Dust Exclusive? Of course they did, Sony most likely paid them a nice bit of money and CCP could then use this additional revenue to continue work on Dust.
Seriously it sounds like people think that CCP wanted to screw over their PC fanbase or something... But I'm chalking it up to people liking to complain.
They'll most likely (after some arbitrary contractual exclusivity period with Sony) release it on PC as well, so for all practical purposes they're getting Sony to pay for a PC game (they've said as much with actually saying so). In addition PS3 is a good launch platform because no one gives you additional money for PC-exclusives and xbox is a very restrictive platforms especially in terms of cross-platform (they don't want Dust to run on CCP servers).
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 6:34PM Amy said

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The main thing I think people forget is that the criticism against CCP for MonacleGate was largely due to shitty reporting of things that were untrue. The leaked memo had whole pages cut out that issued disclaimers that everything was hypothetical and for discussion purposes only. Yet certain eve news sites used it to make a scandal and boost their page hits.

On the business side, WOD largely uses the incarna technology, so developing makes sense on a business side as the cost is shared amongst those projects. I don't think Incaran is a shameless money grab as people had been wanting walking in stations for a long time. The cash shop, sure, but in these days it doesn't make sense not to have one for those who wish to use them. WOW does it, and no one cares.

Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:14PM Brendan Drain said

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@Amy I'm fairly certain that my reporting of the events was accurate and informed. I was the first one to point out that the first page fo Fearless with the disclaimer was missing from EVE News 24's leaked version of the document, and I made that a publicly known fact during the EVE Radio show with CSM delegates. Remember though that CSM delegate Mark Heard (Seleene) was a developer at CCP for years as CCP Abathur, and he himself said the following on the topic:

Exerpt from http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died-page-2/ :
"It's supposed to be there to help employees digest what's going on in the company and the company mindset," he explained. "It's not just an opinion piece." In his view, the newsletter is used by CCP to "get people to have their noses pointed in the same direction" so that by the time a feature is going live, "there's been a bit of internal messaging that says this is what's coming and it's going to be awesome, so be ready for the awesome."

As is usually the case, the facts in this matter are not as clear-cut as we'd like them to be.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:25PM Irem said

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@Amy
People do care about WoW's cash shop, but the difference is that WoW didn't assure players that they were working on an expansion, only to have Cataclysm turn out to be one quest and a cash shop with a handful of ridiculously overpriced items. THAT is what got players up in arms, because that's essentially what happened with Incarna. The leaks threw fuel on the fire because of the incredibly disdainful attitude they took, and the fact that they made it look like CCP was saying one thing to the players and believing in another (which, if Brendan's inside source can be trusted, appears to still be the case). "Hypothetical" and "we're just discussing it" isn't particularly reassuring when a company looks like they're talking out of both sides of their mouth and need to be browbeaten into giving a response, let alone a straight answer.

Any -one- of the things that went wrong with Incarna might have been shrugged off, but all of it happening at the same time painted a very poor picture of CCP, from their competence and their trustworthiness to their attitude toward the players.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:27PM smartstep said

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@Amy

"The cash shop, sure, but in these days it doesn't make sense not to have one for those who wish to use them. WOW does it, and no one cares."

I DO care actually. I don't agree with cash shops, and that INCLUDE vanity only cash shops. I do know people who think similarly. While people thinking like me might not be majority of players - writing that no one cares is just untrue.

Actually I do see playerbase segment more and more on cash shops and official RMT issue.

There is growing number of those who are more or less ok with this and growing number of those who are against that under any circumnstances. While 'undecided' folks numbers seem to be lesser as time passes.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:32PM Celtar said

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@Amy

Even with redacted sections of those leaked memos, the point that there was a lot to "still" be critical of. The egotistical hubris of some in the upper management of CCP and general sense that they don't think much about their customers really has been telling.

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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 7:55PM Amy said

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@Brendan Drain

My intent was not to suggest you reporting things inaccurately, but almost all of those I talked to had heard second or third hand things that were untrue. They thought CCP was going to offer things in the cash shop that they have said wasn't going to happen, and then began bashing devs (who have no say in the matter) over it unjustly. It was a lot of hubbub and rabble for no real reason. CCP has no motivation to break their word and it was foolish of most uninformed people to believe otherwise without really looking at the actual information, not the spun cut up and edited version from EN24.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:26PM Brendan Drain said

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@Amy I wouldn't say it was for no reason. The crux of the rabble rabble was that the Fearless newsletter contained a discussion and debate over things that CCP had already previously told players would not be happening. The fact they were even discussing it is what was damning, and the lack of reply to the "big yellow question" on the forum asking simply whether game-affecting microtransactions would be coming to EVE was the most damning thing. This was a question CCP had already answered months ago with a quick and emphatic "no!"

Not only were developers found to be discussing it again internally but this time they weren't saying no; in fact, they weren't saying anything at all. If CCP never had any intention of going through with those plans, it would have been extremely easy to nip the entire thing in the bud with a single forum post, devblog or interview on the topic. The player worry over what that meant was, in my view, justified.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 10:14PM (Unverified) said

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@Amy " WOD largely uses the incarna technology"
That is a GREAT point Amy! Its obvious that Incarna was a live test for the WoD graphics engine so here's a few points I'd like to make
1) The graphics required shut out many subs because thier computers couldn't handle SM2 (revenue lost)
2) This was obviously a big stick poke in the eye of many Eve players who realized that they where not only subsidizing WoD with thier subscriptions but where now being used as live beta testers for what many called emo Space Barbies and microtransactions.
3) For many Incarna's Avatar graphics where just to taxing on their vidocards. I wouldn't be surprised that in the future in order to allow Avatars to interact with other Avatars with this new engine more harware upgrades would be required. It looks pretty obvious after a few months that the WoD graphics engine is a bit ahead of the current Eve base's video cards and perhaps even ahead of all but those super gamers with bleeding edge expensive video cards.
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