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Reader Comments (164)

Posted: Oct 20th 2011 12:25PM NeoWolfen said

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Nice read for the most part though a tad pessimistic overall.

Also I am perplexed by players who take this approach

"you'll probably roll your eyes a few times while searching for a way to skip the dialogue".

I mean..developers give us lore and story filled text boxes and you guys skip them, they give us actual dialogue so you don't even read...and you skip them! what exactly is it you guys want a Point and grunt interface??? lol Seriously!

Posted: Oct 20th 2011 12:46PM jealouspirate said

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@NeoWolfen

I think the point he was getting at there was not that he isn't interested in story overall, but rather that much of the story in TOR was so cliche, standard and uninteresting that it wasn't worth listening to.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 1:25PM (Unverified) said

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@jealouspirate

I wholeheartedly disagree. If I were in the beta, then I would be inclined to say that the stories so far have rivaled KOTOR in their wit, complexity, and mature themes. They are a triumph of storytelling.

I'd say that if I were in the beta.

Which I am.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 1:30PM lazyb34n said

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@jealouspirate
it looks more like the usual sandboxer idea of 'unless I made the story, its crap.'
I do appreciate his honesty, his last 2 lines i think sums it up best.
" it's likely going to keep Star Wars nuts and themeparkers happy for a while. For those of us who realize that MMOs were meant to be more than casual combat games, though, I'm afraid Sir Alec Guinness said it best when he said this is not the MMO we're looking for."
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 1:33PM trinica said

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@NeoWolfen
I've played the beta and trust me, the dialogue is actually REALLY, REALLY BAD. People who play this game for the story will still want to be able to skip the dialogue - it's downright horrible.

Not to mention that half the time you have to repeat the dialogue because for some reason the NPC forgot they ever talked to you. Lol.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 1:40PM Mystal said

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@NeoWolfen Not everyone is interested in a pulpy bit of fiction, however it's presented. The reviewer is clearly some one who wants to tell his own stories, not be roped into the stories of others.

I can honestly say that only a handful of quests or stories out of dozens of MMOs I've played in the past 15 years have made any impact that lasted longer than the time it took to hand in the quest, so I can definitely see why some people dislike MMO questing (or at least, aren't enthused about it) in general.

I will say though that I have had a MUCH stronger reaction to quests and story lines in single player games (mass effect, bioshock and fallout 3 all come to mind as relatively recent titles whose story kept me satisfied). If Bioware can capture their own single player story magic in a bottle, then it really could add a lot of value and satisfaction to the daily "grind" of MMOs.

The real question in my mind is whether they're capable of turning out new story content at a pace to keep people engrossed in the game, or whether they're going to fall into the trap of having story be a constant element of the game up until the level cap, then just settle back into the MMO norm of raiding and doing daily quests.



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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 1:53PM Borick said

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@NeoWolfen We want to actuate OUR story within the larger well-developed framework. This requires a minimum of exposition. If we're being force-fed a lot of dialog, whether it's text or dancing, singing monkeys, it is a break from defining OUR story in the world.

Story is paramount, but if you hack a story up into cutscenes and force them on people who are trying to actuate themselves in a gameworld, it can ruin the whole thing.

Great article, by the way.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 2:13PM Krazed said

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@(Unverified)
I've played the beta as well, and I've had the exact opposite reaction. There are moments in the dialogue that are interesting and even funny, but for the most part it's expected, and I quickly started skipping scenes as fast as possible.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 3:33PM Jagoss said

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@jealouspirate

No it seems He is more of a person more interested in killing things then story. After all He comes from AOC. Not an incredibly detailed story driven game. I would say, x out of story dialog to go kill things. If your used to that, the time it takes to go through a story is hard driven to ADD mentality of most MMO gamers. Spam the story boxes closed and go kill things.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 3:40PM NeoWolfen said

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@Mystal
Sorry guys but if folks have issues with dialogue and story in general with regard to MMO's then what the heck are you doing following a BIOWARe MMORPG? BIOWARE are and have ALWAYS been about story heavy games and plotlines and this MMO is not any different.

Complaining "too much" story with regard to a bioware game is like saying there is too much car theft in a Rockstar game..

Anyone having issue with story is ALWAYS going to be disappointed by a bioware game because that is thier "thing".
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 3:45PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified) : "the stories so far have rivaled KOTOR in their wit, complexity, and mature themes"

To be fair, KOTOR also made me roll your eyes a few times while searching for a way to skip the dialogue, there was good stuff there but there were also rich lodes of cheese and cliche.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 4:00PM (Unverified) said

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@NeoWolfen I think that's what Jef's point is. Story = Single player RPG Sandbox = MMO. Those 2 should not be mixed together. I personally heavily disagree.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 4:03PM Brianna Royce said

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@(Unverified) wrote: "To be fair, KOTOR also made me roll your eyes a few times while searching for a way to skip the dialogue, there was good stuff there but there were also rich lodes of cheese and cliche."

Hear, hear. Mission's "get a room you guys!" springs to mind.
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Posted: Oct 21st 2011 1:29AM Bhima said

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@trinica
Interesting... My experience with the VO is exactly the opposite. Whiles sometimes the script can be a little pedantic, the actual quality of the voice-over work and animation are spot on.
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Posted: Oct 23rd 2011 8:50PM (Unverified) said

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@jealouspirate Yeah how dare Bioware put story and RP elements into a mmoRPG. The nerve of them!

It seems that Mr Reahard just won't be satisfied. People would complain about walls of text in mmos, so Bioware goes fully voiced and... he complains.

As far as cliche, it's star wars. We pretty much know how sith, jedi, bounty hunters, etc will act. If they changed too much to be "creative" then it wouldn't be star wars. They are staying true to the source material, which is more than you can say for most Hollywood writers/directors (I'm looking at you Michael Bay).
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 12:26PM (Unverified) said

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Obviously not the game for you. I'm in the beta and some of your bad things I personally love! You did concede that others might though which I appreciate. And I LOVE the map!!!

Posted: Oct 20th 2011 12:28PM Ordegar said

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I also grew up on EQ and SWG1 among others; and all I can say is thank the powers that be that this is not like those.

It's apparent to me from reading your article that you and I have a vastly different idea of what fun is; and that's fine. You actually got me even more excited about the game; seeing how most of what you complain about sounds actually good to me.

It does sound very linear, which makes sense if it's story-driven, and a lot of people won't like that.

One of the things that seems missing from your article is what you thought of the story dialog stuff while grouped, or did you play it all solo? You were rather vague about the whole grouping thing.

Anyway, good read, even though I just don't get you.

Posted: Oct 20th 2011 1:04PM Lucidus said

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@Ordegar Linearity is great, until you realize that everyone around you is doing the same thing -- leading to lines to kill quest mobs, or even some classic anti-social killstealing behavior.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 3:59PM (Unverified) said

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@Lucidus You're being an idiot. Don't pretend sandbox games are so much richer, I have played them, you're doing the same grinds everyone else will be doing, only 1 guy is doing grind A while you're doing grind B and another is doing grind C. It's still a grind with a lot, a LOT of repetitve action to camouflage the fact of little dev provided content to be available.

This glorification of sandbox gameplay is completely ludicrous, and a vast lie of exaggeration, to people who have actually played sandbox MMO's and can look at it objectively instead of as a themepark hater or blind sandbox zealot.
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Posted: Oct 20th 2011 4:32PM Lucidus said

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@(Unverified) You're mistaken if you think I'm an idiot. Besides, that just outs you as having bad manners and a worse argument -- which actually bolsters mine. In a themepark, there's one path everyone is taking, especially in TOR. If you don't think there are going to be fights and killstealing and general bad behavior over the kill X mobs quests and the kill X boss mobs (that are not segregated from other players in instances), then you're in for some real fun on TOR's release. Especially if the spawn timers are set between 5-15 minutes.
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