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Reader Comments (129)

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 2:58PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

I think he's taking advantage of the fact that not many people have played the game yet. If you notice, the majority of his posts are predictions about how badly the game will fail and how much of a fit the playerbase will throw when it comes out. He likes to say that it's going to be f2p in a couple months and that ex WoW players are going to freak out about the lack of features. Stuff like that.

When it does come out and people are able to form their own opinions by actually playing the game, his impending doom posts will carry little weight. A large number of people are going to really enjoy this game. There will be people who hate it and voice their hatred loudly, but in the end it won't matter.

People are going to play what they like, and I have a feeling that Bioware is going to do comfortably well with this one.

A lot of people want to attach the common mmo trend of huge sub drops post launch to this game, and while that may be likely to happen, it's not going to be a huge warhammer type failure. There will be a turnover as there is with all mmo's (including Rift) but this game has a chance to sustain a very large player base.

It will out-perform Rift, Aion, Warhammer, Lotro, aoc, and any of the other big name MMOs out there except of course for WoW probably and most of those games could be considered moderately successful/profitable.

Also, trolls will be trolls.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 3:31PM Seldra said

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Lmao, I'm honestly sick and tired of hearing about Rift in the Swtor articles.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 3:41PM (Unverified) said

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@Seldra

Haha I agree. You can thank Ren54 for that though. For him everything must be compared to Rift regardless of how irrelevant it actually is!

I'll give him one thing, he's a damn good troll. He's very successful at getting lots of responses. He even got me to bite today, which is no small feat.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 3:57PM (Unverified) said

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@Ren54 "Only thing I want to see ToR do is not be a colossal failure"

you had me fooled with every post you made on theSWTOR forums, I'm glad you clarified it.


" WoW fanbois are vicious and want to see your game fail and will or say whatever it takes to make sure that happens"

from what I've seen in these forums a rift fanboi is far far worse

also bear in mind that there is no need for a cross server battlegrounds or lfg if they manage their servers right, and don't get too many servers like rift did.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 4:56PM (Unverified) said

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@Ren54 Lol. Rift fanbois like you are far more vicious, for exactly the same reason you accuse WoW fanbois of: you hate to see other MMO's be more successful than your precious Rift.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:32PM Valentina said

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Wow! Great article and I completely agree.

I also hope that #2, and #4 don't happen. That was the WORST with Blizzard and what will hurt them in the future, they've developed such a poor reputation as a company. BioWare doesn't seem to be this way, not when speaking with the different developers and CM/CSR's on the forums for Mass Effect and Dragon age games. The ones on the SW:TOR forums are also really nice and quite funny. Today's gamers are a very hungry bunch, we need content updates and we need them quickly. Trion has done such a fantastic job with this on RIFT and has set the bar really high, I hope BioWare can really come close to matching it at least within the first year or two.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 2:25PM Lucidus said

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@Valentina They're already #4. Their handling of DA2 criticism was abyssmal. Not to mention how condescending and dismissive they were and are of people who hate SWTOR's rail shooter, lack of race choices, etc.

And yes, the rail shooter sucks.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:37PM Space Cobra said

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Personally, I would like to see them (or any MMO Company) handle #1 and #4 well.

My theory in this is that they, like many folks, are all too human, especially where #4 is concerned. People want communication, but think about it from there end: People are throwing these god-awful posts at them, sometimes not even thinking straight themselves, in forums. It is the rare guy who is calm and collected, moreso even rarer when you consider they need a whole Mod team of such folks AND these folks may not fully understand human psychology or be sufficiently laid-back to take and receive criticism and be humble, yet curious about it (to ask the proper questions).

I hate to go with stereotype and say MMO devs, like most players, tend to get anti-social and, like gamers like us, tend to go in their caves and just design, but they do. Fortunately, there are bright spots out there, especially on the Bioware team (that tend to be showcased in the videos and interviews), but how long will these folks stick around? How's their patience? Once the "wedding bliss" of launch is over for awhile (weeks? months?), then how will they handle things?

As for forums, it's all good for me until after launch. It depends on the game and how big it is. I prefer fan forums.

And it is interesting you pointing out all the "Yes Men" because, this is a problem among certain websites (and even in olden days). You mentioned that you (Massively) does not get paid or compensated, while it is standard practice to accept such at many other sites, even "swag" or early beta-testing privileges; again, those folks are also "human" and so is the studio giving "swag"/plane tickets/testing slots/etc. People forget that while it doesn't say on any particular site, many critics accept these gifts and there is an untold "tit-for-tat" that if you talk too badly about a game, you will no longer get privileges/gifts in the future. Really, in journalism, accepting gifts is BAD because it causes either slanted reviews or the APPEARANCE of such tilted reviews.

So, I do appreciate your guys honesty and, being away from WoW for so long, the SW:TOR mechanics haven't scared me (let's see where the gear-grind is, that's one of the main things that drove me from early WoW that I saw coming).

As for updates: You got several kinds of players, those that are patient with the polish and those that aren't. I understand the lack of patience in favorite games, I don't know if Bioware is going to be different; I am thinking it won't be. There are ways to tackle it that Bioware may pursue. Again, most fans, I think, are patient with this game and IP. As for others, while I understand it and I could suggest some alternatives, they'd probably down-vote me, so meh. ;p

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:42PM (Unverified) said

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Had a great beta weekend, can't wait till retail.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 2:53PM Clemalum07 said

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@(Unverified) same here
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 7:20PM (Unverified) said

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@Clemalum07

Same here. :) I went from cautiously optimistic about the game to ordering the CE.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:46PM Kuipo said

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Another thing I think Bioware needs to do (and this is a trap they've already fallen face first into) is copying something other games do, but then trying to pass it off as new. It comes across to the players as one of two things...
1. You think we're idiots and won't notice...
or
2. You have never played any other MMO and truly think what you're "designing" is new.

I watched a lot of SW:TOR talks at PAX Prime this year and every time there was a Q&A, people would ask questions similar to "Will you allow people to customize the look of their gear, regardless of what pieces they are actually wearing?" Now clearly this person is asking about systems like Transmogrification (and others like them from other MMO's) but they are being polite and not asking for it by name...

Bioware's response to questions like these were always really generic or if they did have something in place, they never related it to other games.. they would just explain it in detail that was simply annoying and condescending.

If you don't have something better than other games, that's fine. Just don't treat us all like we've never played an MMO or won't recognize that you're blatantly copying other games.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:59PM Irem said

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@Kuipo
They've always been pretty upfront about the fact that they aren't doing anything new and that they're following the "WoW rules," as one of their staff put it. I think it's a shame, because they had the budget to be much more ambitious.

I do have to wonder how they've taken the fact that WoW itself has consistently refused to abide by the supposed rules this past year, both in negative and positive ways (they've been losing subs, but also trying things like cosmetic armor that they never would have before).
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:56PM Dunraven said

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All I can say about the moderation is what I have seen in Beta in game and on the forums. The mods and GM's do not play. You can tell that they collectively loathe the WoW cesspool/Lord of the flies mentality. I have a strong feeling that many players are going to be shocked at Biowares willingness to perma ban, and thus far...if you lose your posting privileges on the beta forums you lose the ability to play the game as well.

If that transposes over to the live game I'm pretty sure we will have a very tolerant respectful community.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 4:46PM Metatron said

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@Dunraven We can only hope.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 1:59PM DarkWalker said

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About the forums, while it's too early to tell - since most TOR forum goers never played the game, the forum feeling is skewed, to say the least - the current TOR forums seemed to me to have as much trolling and name calling as WoW's at the time I left that game.

Only time will tell if it's going to remain that way.

BTW, for the time being at least, TOR is not the game for me. When deciding on which MMO to try, I look much more at game systems than at storytelling.

Not that story is not important, but I would rather sacrifice story than gameplay; if I have to choose between a game with a fantastic story and one with a fantastic gameplay, I will pick the one with gameplay, while reading the story of the other on a Wiki and watch the most important parts on Youtube.

TOR seems to be using too many recycled WoW game systems, while the other MMOs that should be released fairly close to it are trying changes that really picked up my interest.

(Plus, no single AC in TOR will be able to alternate between Healing and Tanking builds. In a game where both roles exist, this is a big downside for me.)

I will still be watching how the game develops after launch, and might pick it up if I like what I see, but for the time being I'm not picking up TOR.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 2:03PM doublerainbow said

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Games are like drugs to me. They can inspire you, cure depression, lift your mood, and make you want to do great things! I look for the passion and heart through the game play.

You have only a few hours to convince me you know what you are doing. If you do it right, then you have a customer who is dedicated, and will stand by your side.

Inspire me, wow me, make my heart pump, and show me you know great content! I will be your forever...but be constantly inept, and you will be scorned by me for all eternity.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 2:07PM Spacegrass said

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I really hope that SWTOR, like Rift has almost-monthly content updates. Unfortunately, I kind of think they won't, because they won't need to: Rift isn't based on an existing IP, and it was up against the most popular MMO in history, so it had to differentiate itself from other products on the marketplace. I'm concerned that, with all the millions of people playing SWTOR, they might not think regular updates are necessary. Hopefully I'm just being unduly cynical.

As for the forums, I've checked them out, and they don't seem that bad. The players are mostly civil, if a bit whiny, and it's useful for getting an idea of how many people will be playing each class (ie, everyone everywhere's gonna roll an Inquisitor).

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 2:52PM Reverend St Jay said

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@(Unverified) -- Then they will go "Why am I not playing the game I invested years in when this is basically the same thing but a new setting?" back to WoW or they quit completely.

This same argument was used by EQ players during the WoW beta, simply because the play mechanics were so similar (almost identical) between the two games.

Blizzard had a little bit of innovation, and a whole lot of fans. Bioware is in the same position today, and I think that they're going to capitalize on it like a sonofagun.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 3:13PM Lucidus said

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@Reverend St Jay The graphics in WoW were a lot better than EQ's and there were improvements over EQ1 at the time which was novel. Like instancing (versus having to beat out guilds to rare boss spawn and the mega drama that caused) and having a world that wasn't full of loading screens.

SWTOR doesn't have that kind of an edge over WoW. It's a bit of a regression in gameplay.
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