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Reader Comments (37)

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 7:43PM Space Cobra said

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Oh, come now! I understand the concern about quality in User-content, but all Blizz has to do is review it. Set up a review system. They got the money to go through it. Hell, they can even put certain hurdles on user-created content to make it harder to make so less players try (money, more intricate knowledge of coding, limited time period, etc.).

Posted: Oct 12th 2011 2:10PM Daemodand said

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@Space Cobra That easy, huh? All they have to do is burn thousands of extra man-hours so players can push out some of the worst tripe ever and full-on farms? Wow, what a deal!

Look at City of Heroes' Architect Entertainment and tell me how great player generated farm-- er, content is.
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Posted: Oct 13th 2011 6:29AM Space Cobra said

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@Daemodand

Well, smaller companies *have* done this already; review such content (and not just making missions). So it can be done.

Also, as it seems, one can work with this. Sure, it has to have oversight, but what are the guys who are in charge of content doing at the moment? You could say, they are making their own content but again, I go back to putting in some measure of lock/controls over players. What I am thinking of would be more taking a cue and integrating it into the WoW world, not just a simple mission-generator like you are thinking. There are MANY ways one can do this and they don't all point toward one player-invested mechanic.

And really, I mentioned "money" in my statement, along with more intimate knowledge of coding. Of course, one could create "crap" with that as a form of trolling, if the troller wishes to throw money and his coding time at it, but you'd weed out much of the folks who are not serious. And for those that are serious, but bad writers, well, again, more controls. Limited time contests, etc.

Again, a mission architect system could apply, but for WoW, I feel you need something different for that game, since they like their IP/stories (or did when the game launched). And again, Blizzard is a pretty big company, although it loves to cut costs (so, again I mention a Limited Time contest of sorts).

I am probably thinking not only within "the box", but outside it, too.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 7:46PM (Unverified) said

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So... keep the player made content in a controlled area, far away from the rest of the game.
Make player content its own map/zone/whatever, in its own place, like... a rediscovered floating island in Outlands or something, that is instanced.
Don't like what the players are doing with it? Rattle it like a etch-a-sketch and make players start over. Give players ways to police each other, so mis-use is minimal. Rating systems, whatever.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 7:48PM (Unverified) said

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I bet if they found a way to monetize the user-created content (Buy a Developer Kit for an extra $5/month premium!) they'd have it. Or maybe we can just trade lion cubs for user content??

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 7:51PM Space Cobra said

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As for Titan: I know we've seen one "screenshot" (or one shot from an intro movie) but this makes me think it's all vaporware at this moment, or at the least, just a bunch of polygons and stick-figures in a game engine.

Course I am speculating, but really, they don't have the IP nailed down yet? Sheesh!

Look, Blizz, maybe you shoulda concentrated on a new game during all this time. You got your start with Warcraft and had other hits before your MMO came out. Maybe it's time to go "back-to-basics" and start an IP from a smaller scale, even single-player, before putting it on an new MMO. That seems to be the way you guys work, more slow evolution and building on an IP/world than a sudden "out-of-the-box" sorta thing.

At least just build something in-house that only you guys and friends and family have access to, then develop the world from there.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 7:51PM Borick said

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Their best systems as well as some of their best systems designers were lifted from the open mod community.

This doesn't mean that WoW would be made better by player housing or some sort of new sandbox spin on the world, but where it is reasonable to allow it, a game is improved beyond measure by the work of tinkerers builders.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:04PM Apakal said

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@Borick

Truth, but amongst the UI gems at WoWInterface and Curse, there are mountains of turds. Just like anything else user-created, you have to sift through 90% garbage to find the good 10%.

And even the well done, powerful UI mods are wasted on inept users 7 times out of 10. Just look at a "Show Your UI" thread and take not of how many non-configured, straight-out-of-the-box mods are shown, with half their potential wasted because the end-user only wants the core function or doesn't understand how to use slash commands to open the UI options.

Its just not worth it, from a user standpoint or a developer standpoint. The few people that would make good use of it aren't enough to warrant the time and effort to host and maintain a review service or create the tools for the system in the first place.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 11:23PM scrubmonkey said

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@Apakal

The simple fact that WOWInterface and Curse exist is indication that they could pass it on to the player base and it would police itself. Sure, only 10% of the user submissions would be good... but in the case of addons, that 10% of the good stuff changed the face of MMO design permanently. Raid frames. Integrated UI mods. These features are expected in new games, and WoW had the advantage of having users code it FOR them.

The WoW storyline is running it's course. Could you imagine some of the better user created content/story arcs being adapted by the devs and expanded into full raid clusters? I could.

Quantity is meaningless, as long as there is enough quality for the feature to pay for itself.
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Posted: Oct 12th 2011 10:31AM Furdinand said

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@Apakal I disagree, with the rating systems and talking to other players, it is easy to bypass the 90% and dive straight into the 10%.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:03PM (Unverified) said

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So it's the playerbase's fault, and it's totally not possible to design a system that takes into consideration the varying quality of user-created content; gotcha. /facepalm

At the very least they could concentrate on more activities, non-combat in particular, for the players to enjoy. Heck, even if it's not sandbox content at least put out more of a variety.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 10:47PM nhat said

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@(Unverified) Ehh it can be any platform, video making, writing, game making, etc. A lot of it is crap.
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:14PM NeverDeath said

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Blizzard's game is already spread too thin as it tries to appeal to too many people wanting too many things, all for the sake of squeezing every last cent out of the industry. Don't get me wrong, financially it's what any company would probably love to do, but at what cost? The game is already considered a joke by so many people and the biggest reason for it all is that it tries to be too many things to too many people, and ultimately the only people who are happy with it are the lower end of the spectrum who are most easily entertained. If they want to point fingers over "quality concerns" I'm left to wonder why they aren't already concerned with the level of "quality" that currently "exists".

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:14PM (Unverified) said

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GOOD! Hopefully other games WILL NOT ruin their game like COh and STO will.

I will NEVER play ANY user-created content, simply because its not created by the devs and the majority of it has NOTHING to do with the current games canon.

Now, if someone creates a storyline that is given a thumbs up by the devs themselves, and, follow the canon perfectly - then I might try it.

Would would be cool is if the user generated content is in-house for guild members only and only rarelt, when one is REALLY EPIC, its for public consumption.

Truth is, having user created content shows HOW EASY it is to create missions, yet STO and COH are slowwwwwwwwwwwwwww and its embarrassing for them., They need to get rid of it

Posted: Oct 12th 2011 11:18AM fallwind said

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@(Unverified) boy, you must have had fun when the draenei were introduced...
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Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:25PM NeverDeath said

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One thing I wish more MMOs would embrace is what Trion is trying to do. If you're going to play WoW's game of trying to appeal to a more general audience instead of being a niche game like older MMOs used to be, you have to actually fan out and expand on multiple fronts and most importantly, you have to pander to multiple demographics which will encompass the vast breadth of your subscriber base. RIFT is actually pandering not only to casuals, but to advanced and hardcore players, and I wish other games - WoW among them - would take this attitude as well, that everyone matters instead of just the hive mind of the lowest common denominator.

How about something similar to the idea of RIFT's "master" dungeons that actually have some difficulty, some environments in which the vast player buffs and content nerfs taking place in the rest of the game do not dilute the player's desire to be challenged. You know, like Heroics USED to be (beginning of BC or to a lesser extent beginning of Cata before the inevitable content nerfs and Player buffs). Raids with more punishing mechanics where you can't just have 3 people handle the important roles and carry the rest of the raid, but where ANY one person's error can lead to a raid wipe. Hydross the Unstable would stutter the beam and summon a thousand elites and wipe the raid in seconds if just one person left a DoT on for 1 interval too long, or if the tank was 1 second too slow on the taunt-swap. Leotheras would enrage for sure if just a few people failed to kill their whispers. If one person missed their cube transition by just a second then the whole raid would suffer 10k fire damage in a time when non-tanks typically had 10-12k health.

Sure, I realize that casuals own the industry. It's Blizzard's fault because as the game with the most subscribers they had direct impact on controlling the play experience of a huge share of the market, and they grew people complacent and accustomed to easy wins - which is fine, for them. What about those of us who love MMOs for their persistent world and sense of player community, where it represents a fantasy world come to life with more than just AI - but who want a challenge? We are forgotten.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:28PM Yukon Sam said

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Naturally you've got to review and enforce IP and address quality concerns, but any game that's not seriously thinking about UGC is missing a huge opportunity. Not only is content generation a metagame in its own right, its one that (properly implemented) benefits all players.

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:32PM (Unverified) said

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I'm curious: To those more... "well traveled" than myself, what game *has* done player created content "right"? Even among the PWs of NWN (of which I ran one, and I daresay we did a great job) there were "duds". Has anyone ever *had* the "officially reviewed" implementation to the point that no "duds" see the light of day, and thus "tarnish" the product as Blizz fears here?

If Blizz wants (and, let's say, implements) that very standard or nothing, would they be the first?

Posted: Oct 11th 2011 8:34PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified) Also... I don't count COH/V as "done right", as the scaling on their UGC is horrendous for lower levels (even missions with level ranges starting at level 1) in many cases.
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Posted: Oct 12th 2011 8:37AM Space Cobra said

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@(Unverified)

Well, there are many factors, even including "eye of the beholder" perspectives of player and creator. NWN is a good example, but there is one MMO that is upcoming that may address such User Content (I forget the name! ;P ).

Still, there is more than just "making a mission environment" to user content. A few less-popular games have such things, take "Pirate of the Burning Sea". Users can design sails for their boats and the graphics upon them. Furthermore, users can design boats themselves (ala 3D modeling software) for inclusion in the game. I forget the specifics nowadays, but there was a review process in place for these submissions. Of course, having more boat models ultimately helps all the player base by making them available in future use.

There is more than one way to accept "User Created Content" than just a mission generator and ways to review it.
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