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Reader Comments (21)

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 7:24PM ShivanSwordsman said

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I'm still amazed they'd charge VIPs even though they're the folks paying monthly. I even resubbed by buying Going Rogue, and found out the Beam Rifle and this would have to be purchased, as well as all the costumes that came out. Eff. That. Noise. I'd pay for it all if it came in a $10 - $20 Expansion pack, but I see this as no more than a cash grab from a company grasping at the final straws of it's legacy.

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 7:42PM StClair said

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@ShivanSwordsman
The idea seems to be that VIP (subscribing) players will pay for it with two months' worth of their stipend, thereby getting it for "free" with their sub... sort of. As much as any new sets, or proliferated sets, were free before. That's the theory.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 7:50PM Sam not Spam said

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@StClair
Yeah... the stipend is a great VIP perk for those willing to wait for things. Otherwise? There's the impatience tax of buying extra points to "Get it now." I already spent all my Paragon Points from i21/Freedom's launch, so I need to buy more later on because, well, I'm impatient :p
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 11:01PM (Unverified) said

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@ShivanSwordsman Well although I had to "pay" for Beam Rifle, I didn't have to buy any points. When Freedom went live, I had 1800 points already earned since the devs said that everyone got a bonus 400 points if they played in the head start in addition to the points they were auto-earning starting with July. So the Rocket Sled and Beam Rifle powerset I got right away at no additional cost to me. As for Street Justice, I get 400 points a month free, so I'll get it in November.
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Posted: Oct 5th 2011 7:53AM pcgneurotic said

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@ShivanSwordsman

When DDO went F2P, there were similar complaints from players, and one of the things someone here said in defence of the whole thing was - to paraphrase - that the retail and F2P versions of the game are technically and legally two different games. They have different EULAs and other back-end differences too.

It sounds reasonable to me, but I think the problem is that as long-term players and subscribers, *we're* not different. Which means we still feel like we should get everything for free, whereas post-F2P, they can arguably justifiably say, 'This is a new thing, and NOBODY gets it free'.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 7:48PM Sam not Spam said

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Well, a VIP can save their stipend for 2 months and get it that way. Personally, given how often new powersets come out, I'd much rather see them charge and do it more regularly than keep it "free" but new powers only come out once in a great while. Granted, I don't expect folks to share that opinion, and it certainly is a divisive issue!

On the same note, if it was free for VIPs, then if someone went Premium then they'd have to pay to unlock the character anyhow. They did that with Controllers, Masterminds and the *EATs for Premium players below a certain reward level, after all.

I'm pleased to see this, and I'm looking forward not only to the upcoming Titan Weapons but the alleged Staff Fighting, along with whatever is next. I'd love to see 4-12 new powersets a year so long as the quality/uniqueness is there and there are free (or free for VIP players) powersets mixed in. Hell, I'd love to see them create a new AT or two while they're at it, although I know that'd likely be comparitively expensive.

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 8:15PM Brianna Royce said

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@Sam not Spam Ditto on staff fighting... street justice isn't doing it for me, but I may as well set aside the points for staff melee right now. Can't wait. :D
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 8:27PM Sam not Spam said

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@Brianna Royce
That's really the big thing for me - I can buy what I want. I don't use any of the GR powersets except for Kinetic Melee, for instance. I would not have bought them if given a choice, and don't get any sort of discount for not using them.

I realize ala carte is always more expensive, but I'd rather buy one set I want for $10 than pay $20 to get one I wanted along with three I didn't.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 8:13PM (Unverified) said

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Let the nickel and diming commence!

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 8:29PM Sam not Spam said

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@(Unverified)
Patient VIPs won't have any problems with this. And, honestly, this is much better than not being able to play at all if you're not subscribed, so it also benefits Free and Premium players. Plus, having them benefits VIP players, too. I'm not really seeing a downside here.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 8:31PM Sam not Spam said

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@Sam not Spam
Case in point - I've got five friends who I play other games with that wouldn't try City of Heroes with a sub, but now that they can play without one? They'll finally take the plunge ^_^
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 9:18PM Ehra said

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@(Unverified)

VIPs should have, what, 1600 points by now? 2000 depending on when they get this month's allowance? If a subscriber is getting nickeled and dimed then it's their own fault for spending it all already and not being willing to wait two months.

If you're not a VIP then I don't see what the problem is.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 10:04PM Armaros said

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@Ehra And its not like people that subbed got all the powersets for free anyway. If you didn't buy City of Villain before they ported the sets over, you didn't play them, and the same for the Going Rogue powersets.

Also this is the fast rate that they have added powersets besides during an expansion, If i had to pay in order to keep up this rate of development, I would.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 11:55PM Jeromai said

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The whole idea of a "patience tax" or time=money direct exchange isn't specific to City of Heroes. One finds this in many microtransaction models, where you can pay to skip something or speed up something.

Also not new, new stuff costs a premium. Over time, the value erodes. This also applies to singleplayer games, and is especially visible on Steam, which chases the long tail with methodical discounts.

I would be greatly surprised if the Paragon store does not offer sales and bundles at a later point in time.

I'm curious to know how Street Justice compares to MA and SS, as well as the other more popular powersets such as dark melee, fiery melee and kinetic melee.

Posted: Oct 5th 2011 4:19AM Sam not Spam said

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@Jeromai
Well, Beam Rifle was on sale when it came out, so seeing Street Justice on sale is an inevitability. Plus, the impatience tax is a regular part of anything, really... people are buying Gears of War 3 right now for $60. I won't buy it until its $30 at most, and comes with some of the DLC included. I bought Gears 2 the same way - $30 got me the game brand new with ALL the DLC (about $20 worth?). Bought Alan Wake new for $20 plus one of the DLC's free.

Patience is very much the budget gamer's friend. Lord knows I've got bills, rent and a car payment that come before new shinies @_@
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Posted: Oct 5th 2011 9:23AM SiML said

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I only saw about 4 different animations there. I guess the rising knee and leg break animations are pretty dirty (street) , but a street fighting / dirty fighting / pub-fighting powerset has been on the suggestions thread for a long time and the suggestions were more like;

Headbutt (disorient)
Knee to crotch (Immobilise)
Poke to the eye (disorient)
Break chair over head
Throw heavy cut-glass ashtray
Swallow whisky and blow on lighter
Knuckleduster
Stamp on foot
Jab to throat
Wield broken bottles

....etc.

Perhaps theres more to this powerset, but it doesn't seem particularly 'street'. The moves in the video should of just been added to MA to spruce up that overly foot-based powerset.

Posted: Oct 5th 2011 9:46AM CitizenH said

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@SiML

The video didn't show all the attacks, which is strange because they all look awesome. The attacks are:

Initial Strike: A very quick one-two jab
Heavy Blow: Alternates between a rushing straight and a fast uppercut.
Sweeping Cross: A huge haymaker that hits as a cone in front of you.
Rib Cracker: Knee to the face, ribs, crotch depending on your character's relative height,
Spinning Strike: Haymaker followed by a roundhouse heel strike.
Shin Breaker: Downward kick to the leg.
Crushing Uppercut: Shoryuken from Street Fighter.
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Posted: Oct 5th 2011 11:32AM starka1 said

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@CitzenH

That still sounds nothing like what SiML was suggesting. I would without a doubt buy a powerset with his list.

I was at first excited about the powerset but now feel more 'meh' about it after seeing it in action. I can definitely wait for a sale or possibly skip it altogether. For me it's still too close to Martial Arts, i.e. not enough variety to set it apart.

Unfortunately, I don't think the game engine can handle some of the suggestions from SiML's comment.
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Posted: Oct 5th 2011 11:49AM (Unverified) said

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I am also upset that VIP are being made to pay for this powerset on top of our monthly sub. We either have to wait two months, which is a too long should be just one month, or pay $10.00 for points.
So maybe someone can explain this.
I thought the logic behind making VIP pay for some powersets is that they were more graphically intensive and thus more expensive to design.

But looking at the animations to street justice, they are nothing more than martial arts moves with some changes.
I dont see anything about the street justice set that is graphically superior or reason to make VIP pay extra for it because of increased costs.
wasnt time manipulation included with VIP? those animations seem to be more involved than street justice.

To me, charging 800 points is nothing but a low blow street justice move cash grab.

Posted: Oct 5th 2011 4:41PM Sente said

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@(Unverified)

Why are you being upset that you do not get it as part of the VIP subscription if you anyway think it is just a slightly different Martial Arts? Just use Martial Arts and ignore Street Justice, problem solved.

As a subscriber/VIP there is nothing that says you should be entitled to everything they produce. What Paragon Studios has said is that they want to provide at least as much (and a bit more) to VIPs than they got a s subscribers - that is something quite different from "everything".

If what they produced under the subscription is this much: #####
and they with the hybrid model starts to produce this much: #########
then even if you still have to pay extra for ### of that content, you still get ######, which is more than #####.

Personally I enjoyed Street Justice quite a bit during closed beta and I had no issues spending 800 points on that one.
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