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Reader Comments (147)

Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 6:57PM (Unverified) said

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ehh....Seems you like twitch based combat, I myself don't, maybe to some people twitched based combat = skill maybe in an fps but I don't want twitched based combat.

Plus uhh this whole "removing trinity" thing sounds like guild wars wants to make it feel like a solo adventure since you'll probably only worry about yourself for the most part and if you notice a few people on low health you throw an aoe heal.

I guess i personally like the "holy trinity" since people need to work together to complete a difficult battle. With how your describing it, doesn't seem like the team aspect will really be there since, your all pretty much capable of doing your own thing and sometimes let out an aoe heal once in a while.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 7:29PM Xavoc said

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Hahaha and you people call your self’s writers? I don’t have a problem with you giving a bad review but whoever wrote this is a TERRIBLE and contradictory author. You seem to have a problem with how the combat system works in SWTOR (Get into melee range and press buttons to activate abilities) lol but yet love GW2 combat system (Get into melee range and press buttons to activate abilities) mmmmm something wrong there. Furthermore, you call what you have written a ‘review’ after playing 10mins of the game? Don’t be so bloody absurd. You should be sacked for writing such bias tripe!

Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 7:56PM Lenn said

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@Xavoc Oh hi there! You must be new here, fresh off that rage thread on the TOR forum. Yeah, I'm there too. And yeah, I'll say it again, as I said both here and in that thread: this was not a review.
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Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 8:18PM Cerulean Shaman said

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It was a good read, though a little disappointing to hear about SWOTR. Instead of fanboi-ing out on MMORPG's I just actually play them. Aye, there's been a lot of money and time wasted in the process, but at least I know beyond a doubt if a game is truly bad or not. I also get a rounded experience of MMORPG titles and sometimes even some good memories out of a terrible game.

My friends take my MMORPG opinions seriously because of the way I think and I'm not afraid to in the end admit a game is terrible even if I was previously worshiping it like a god (i.e. FFXIV). SWOTR was really high on my list, and I'm likely to at least try it...but it's normal edition now for sure and I'm already expecting desperate "save me" advertising like we get from Rift.

Looks like GW2 really is on the spotlight right now..would be terrible if it ended up being horrible.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 10:25PM kingjiggly said

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Congrats GW2!

About Swtor, i agree it is hard to write a fair article while only playing 10 minutes. But, I believe Bioware should have given them more time to play it, and a little more stuff and fluff. And those of you who are saying that only 10 minutes of playing the game makes this article biased, wouldn't that SAME rule go for those who played it and gave it good reviews? I would just like to point that out, because that logic goes both ways. And yes, I'm a Guild Wars 2 fanboy, and meh about Swtor. But I'll be fair and not say anything about them until I've played both.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 10:27PM (Unverified) said

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Well this review is amusing as hell.

"Considering that the game is due for launch in just three months, I found the fact that character creation isn't ready to show to the public was more than a little worrying."

If you had paid attention to, well, the multitudes of references to the NDA that SWTOR is wrapped up in, you would have probably realized that their attentiveness to the premades was certainly because they were operating under the same type of restrictions. It has nothing to do with how ready it is and everything to do with the culture of revealing as little as possible prior to a set date, probably around Halloween if I had to take a wild guess. That gives two months for the Christmas shopping crowd.


"The key thing to remember is that MMOs have always used a select-and-cast ability targeting system for reasons of technical and financial feasibility. Standard MMO combat mechanics were designed to reduce the number of server calls and calculations required for a given action to the bare minimum. Those feasibility issues no longer exist on the current generation of server hardware, allowing developers to explore alternate gameplay options that would better suit their setting. Guild Wars 2, for example, has a large array of aimed abilities and real twitch-based evasion mechanics. The fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic didn't do something similar for lightsaber combat and force powers is almost baffling."

You appear to think GW2s cross of WoW and DS3 combat is an awesome achievement. Bully for you. While the server tech could to an extent handle that, you'll note that the PvP in GW2 will be set aside in relatively small instances. Certainly nothing as large as an entire planet(planets being between 3-8 areas in WoW) like Illum in SWTOR. There's a reason for that. Lag kills target style gaming, and the bigger the area and more PvP going on, it gets geometrically worse. Especially if there is any sort of physics feedback. That doesn't even consider that the total bandwidth needed jumps exponentially.

Moreover it leaves your definition of twitch gaming much to be desired. There's no real point to having the gun classes without hitboxes, and there's a reason that the only MMOs with hitboxes and gun combat have you dying within three hits. As well there's a reason the graphics in those games tend to be very, very rough. The servers could not handle run and gun as a valid playstyle and keep the hitboxes working properly. Just doesn't work. Not to mention the amount of programming that goes into accurate hitboxes across that many people makes for an entire MMO in and of itself. Then there's the fact that you would have to make guns either shorter ranged than the force users or utterly ineffectual so that the force users would have time to set up casts. Well, unless you expect them just to spam the force version of magic missile and fireball.

As for melee combatants, if you want something like Dark Messiah or Oblivion, once again good luck with hitboxes. All the same problems apply, but even worse because of lack of range. You get collision issues and everything else.

Anything else besides DMoM&M combat requires different peripherals besides keyboard, mouse, and joystick. Good luck selling that.

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 9:43PM kingjiggly said

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@(Unverified) Guild Wars 2 will have WvWvW pvp btw. As in, three ENTIRE servers (I believe that is the right term). So. unless one world in your Star Wars = 3 servers. So, if GW2 can somehow manage the lag and the confusion, Im sure swtor could. Especially with the big bucks they are putting into it. I just wanted to point this out.
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Posted: Oct 5th 2011 4:57PM (Unverified) said

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@kingjiggly Your WvWvW takes place in special instances, and will have a instance cap. That cap may be set at 1000 players per server or, more likely, something like 600 players per server, but the cap will still be present. No cap on Illum, which means theoretically the entire server pop could jump in. Highly unlikely, but theoretically possible.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/0/00/2011_August_world_vs_world_map.jpg
That's the entirety of one of your WvWvW maps. Given the size, I'd say 1200 players would be pushing it. Probably closer to 900 or 600 cap.

And that's what you're limited to with the most basic form of hitboxing imaginable. The more complex your hitboxing, the more objects which can be affected by physics, the worse it gets.

Honestly, if the guy pushing the review doesn't like SWTOR, that's fine. If he likes GW2s combat system better, that's also fine. What pisses me off is when he tries to say that hitboxes are a perfectly viable system for uncapped pvp or a truly massive MMO. It's just not true. Neither the bandwidth or server tech is there on the cost scales you're looking at.
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Posted: Oct 5th 2011 5:00PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified) I should note that by server, I mean map.
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Posted: Oct 6th 2011 11:12AM Lensor said

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@(Unverified)

So the reason for the TOR demo being short and withholding core content such as the character creation is.. the NDA?

That frankly worries me even more than anything the author wrote.

I was actually quite shocked that BW released pre-orders *before* lifting the NDA. The other way around would be way more natural. For a developer with confidence in their product that is... And no, "they are waiting for Halloween to lift the NDA" does not cut it as an excuse, not for me at least.
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Posted: Oct 7th 2011 8:10PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified) Just for clarification, that's a map leaked by an alpha tester and is NOT complete. It is a portion (supposedly around a third) of the center WvWvW map. There are also 3 home maps that the different servers start in. Given the likelihood of those maps being smaller, the image that you showed is probably around one tenth of the entire WvWvW "instance".
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Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 10:37PM kingjiggly said

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I meant previews*

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 3:40AM (Unverified) said

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Honestly, it didn't take me longer than 10 minutes to see SWTOR for what it is either and it only took me a couple of hours to be completely bored with it.

Posted: Oct 4th 2011 2:31PM Bnol said

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Obviously the writer didn't do any research on SW:TOR before playing it. He would know that it is a standard MMORPG, with no groundbreaking changes to combat. The writer also doesn't know how development works, nor how demos work. Another garbage article.

Posted: Oct 5th 2011 1:06PM Lensor said

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People, the article is about "impressions". It is right there in the title for crying out loud! It does not pretend to be a review, to stop treating it as such.

If 10 minutes are too short to give a good enough impression of a game, then it should have been longer. If people walk away from a demo unimpressed, that means the developer should have made the demo experience better. It is really simple.

Don't blame the author for the developers marketing shortcomings.

Posted: Oct 5th 2011 7:29PM kingjiggly said

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That map is only about 1/3 of the total map (speculation), maybe less, but I am sure there ismore to it, as you can tell by the buildings.. The server cap (as said by ANet) will unlikely be filled. The hitbox thing I agree with, it is a little farfetched. But in PvP department, I expect Gw2 to win.

Posted: Oct 5th 2011 7:31PM kingjiggly said

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@ Unverified, for some reason it isn't quoting.

Posted: Oct 6th 2011 12:13PM AceSteveC said

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"Don't blame the author for the developers marketing shortcomings"

So would you prefer they had lengthened the queue to the point where he would have been waiting 3-5 hours so that each player could get a half an hour's play? Or maybe they could have gone to a venue 3 times the size and had 3 times as many machines. Oh wait, then there'd have been no demo at all at that event and he'd have been slagging them off for that. I think it's a given that at an event with that high an attendance and with a product as popular as TOR that nobody is going to get a decent amount of time with it prior to getting their invite to the actual testing without an NDA. i.e. Maybe it's too soon to try to write any article at all, much less this piece of biased hate.

Posted: Oct 6th 2011 11:52PM (Unverified) said

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Secret World and Wildstar are all I want.

Posted: Oct 7th 2011 12:55PM jslim419 said

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"I found the fact that character creation isn't ready to show to the public was more than a little worrying."

or maybe they didn't want people spending huge amounts of time trying to create characters holding up the lines.

come on massively.. you send a GW2 fanboy to eurogamer expo, and i'm supposed to be surprised when the article is nothing but "OMG OMG OMG! GW2 IS SO AWESOME! and SWTOR sucks!"?

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